Engine management ?s
#1
01-21-2010, 09:54 PM
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Engine management ?s
Ok im new to this site and Im in the process of building a 1981 volvo gl. I have all the turbo parts peiced together and i need to get it tuned. I contacted a tuner in my area and he was asking what kind of engine management im gonna be using. I was just wondering if my stock ecu can be modified? would i have to get a full stand alone? Or would a FMU work? Any help on this would be greatly appreciated!!
#2
01-21-2010, 10:19 PM
#3
01-22-2010, 03:54 AM
To be honest, if your car isn't already running LH2.4, by the time you source all the gear for that and hack, er I mean splice that into your car, then chip it, you are not far off a standalone ECU on cost and effort.
And a standalone will let you do exactly what you want it to do, with LH2.4 and chips, you are constrained somewhat by how far you can go, although it is a very adaptive system, it has limits.
Regards, Andrew.
And a standalone will let you do exactly what you want it to do, with LH2.4 and chips, you are constrained somewhat by how far you can go, although it is a very adaptive system, it has limits.
Regards, Andrew.
#4
01-22-2010, 09:31 AM
I am or was in a very similar situation as to what you are doing, except my car was already turbo.
Really this a question of how deep your pocket book is, or how accomplished a mechanic you are.
Now correct me if I'm wrong but your car is currently a Kjet car. I don't believe that LH1 made it to America til 1982 but I have heard of Canadian cars which had it in 1981 escaping and getting here that had it.
Your absolute cheapest and easiest thing you can do, get a frequency valve, the turbo fuel distribution unit, fuel enrichment valve, and the overboost valve from a turbo kjet car and put it in your car. As far as I can tell all the kjet cars had the same everything including its simple ECU's except as mentioned above and a little wiring. Pretty simple to figure out with a wiring diagram. I think the over boost and fuel enrichment vlave were also only added to certain cars and they had to be intercooled. The non intercooled ones just ran the turbo fuel distributor. I have all this stuff sitting in my garage fresh and ready to go if you want to buy it 120 bucks its all yours. The downsides to kjet is it can be finicky, and you are somewhat limited to about 225hp with the set up. Or at least thats what Stu told me about it.
Next step up in price and skill would be LH2.2, which i detailed the instillation of in a kjet car in a thread on here. It's relatively cheap, I spent 90 total on everything i needed for the fuel side. including injectors, ecu, wiring harness and the like. But if i was to say maximum cost probably about 250. It too has it its limits. I've been told the ceiling is about 300 give or take depending on your exact setup. It is chippable and with the addition of any EZK 012 system (117 being the desired sub number) which is not so easily chipped. Apparently if your pretty handy with a soldering gun you can add a 116 daughter board and some other stuff. But i'm not even going to get in to that.
Next step LH2.4 in price and skill this is basically the same as 2.2 but you have to put in a 2.4 flywheel and the crank sensor. Throw another 100 or so on the 2.2 price. 2.4 apparently also learns and adjusts better than 2.2 but I understand it too has about a 300hp limit. Its reliable and it just works. Of course there are other more powerful and versatile options, but well...
Next step is Megasquirt and Spark. Really this is an awesome system and its very versatile and you can do a lot of things with it. You can have coil over plug ignition and EDIS trigger wheel with a a VR sensor and then use GM water and air temp sensors. It's all pretty cool. And will probably cost you 600-800 to do it right, Plus you'll want to buy a crappy laptop to keep in your car. Because eventually one day you'll go hop in your car find it won't start and you'll have to reload your maps, and some days you'll want to adjust your maps for the temperature or fuel your using. It's all very "adjustable" and neat I guess you could say. Problems with it, I had a 1991 VW GTI16v that i ran Megasquirt on this was back in the days when version 2 just came out. It was, awesome, when it worked. When it didn't I walked because i would have to sit there for an hour adjusting everything to make the car run or run correctly. I would call MSnS the Linux of engine management. You can do a lot with it, but with out some knowledge of how it all works and the willingness to learn, its tough. And can be very user unfriendly.
Next step are your plug and play options 034 motorsport, Perfect Power, Haltech, AEM, Simple digital, MoTec. There are tons of them out there. They all have about 1100 dollar jump off point going easily into the 3000 mark. These guys are usually designed for your motor and come with all the wiring and sensors and all that to basically get in your car start it up and start kickin butt. Honestly if i was to ever have a car that i wanted to go crazy with, this would be my option. But for a car i would drive daily, no way. Reason being, when something goes bad with the ECU or some of the special sensors that come with these systems, you'll be left with a 4000lb rock and probably a bill for 400 dollars after waiting a few weeks to mail something back to the company to have them fix it and send it back.
The choice is yours. I've gone 2.2 because it was the cheapest easiest way for me to go, and get good power. I'm not in the interest of putting down 11 second quarter miles or anything. I just wanted a somewhat quick car. I have crotch rockets for going truly fast.
Really this a question of how deep your pocket book is, or how accomplished a mechanic you are.
Now correct me if I'm wrong but your car is currently a Kjet car. I don't believe that LH1 made it to America til 1982 but I have heard of Canadian cars which had it in 1981 escaping and getting here that had it.
Your absolute cheapest and easiest thing you can do, get a frequency valve, the turbo fuel distribution unit, fuel enrichment valve, and the overboost valve from a turbo kjet car and put it in your car. As far as I can tell all the kjet cars had the same everything including its simple ECU's except as mentioned above and a little wiring. Pretty simple to figure out with a wiring diagram. I think the over boost and fuel enrichment vlave were also only added to certain cars and they had to be intercooled. The non intercooled ones just ran the turbo fuel distributor. I have all this stuff sitting in my garage fresh and ready to go if you want to buy it 120 bucks its all yours. The downsides to kjet is it can be finicky, and you are somewhat limited to about 225hp with the set up. Or at least thats what Stu told me about it.
Next step up in price and skill would be LH2.2, which i detailed the instillation of in a kjet car in a thread on here. It's relatively cheap, I spent 90 total on everything i needed for the fuel side. including injectors, ecu, wiring harness and the like. But if i was to say maximum cost probably about 250. It too has it its limits. I've been told the ceiling is about 300 give or take depending on your exact setup. It is chippable and with the addition of any EZK 012 system (117 being the desired sub number) which is not so easily chipped. Apparently if your pretty handy with a soldering gun you can add a 116 daughter board and some other stuff. But i'm not even going to get in to that.
Next step LH2.4 in price and skill this is basically the same as 2.2 but you have to put in a 2.4 flywheel and the crank sensor. Throw another 100 or so on the 2.2 price. 2.4 apparently also learns and adjusts better than 2.2 but I understand it too has about a 300hp limit. Its reliable and it just works. Of course there are other more powerful and versatile options, but well...
Next step is Megasquirt and Spark. Really this is an awesome system and its very versatile and you can do a lot of things with it. You can have coil over plug ignition and EDIS trigger wheel with a a VR sensor and then use GM water and air temp sensors. It's all pretty cool. And will probably cost you 600-800 to do it right, Plus you'll want to buy a crappy laptop to keep in your car. Because eventually one day you'll go hop in your car find it won't start and you'll have to reload your maps, and some days you'll want to adjust your maps for the temperature or fuel your using. It's all very "adjustable" and neat I guess you could say. Problems with it, I had a 1991 VW GTI16v that i ran Megasquirt on this was back in the days when version 2 just came out. It was, awesome, when it worked. When it didn't I walked because i would have to sit there for an hour adjusting everything to make the car run or run correctly. I would call MSnS the Linux of engine management. You can do a lot with it, but with out some knowledge of how it all works and the willingness to learn, its tough. And can be very user unfriendly.
Next step are your plug and play options 034 motorsport, Perfect Power, Haltech, AEM, Simple digital, MoTec. There are tons of them out there. They all have about 1100 dollar jump off point going easily into the 3000 mark. These guys are usually designed for your motor and come with all the wiring and sensors and all that to basically get in your car start it up and start kickin butt. Honestly if i was to ever have a car that i wanted to go crazy with, this would be my option. But for a car i would drive daily, no way. Reason being, when something goes bad with the ECU or some of the special sensors that come with these systems, you'll be left with a 4000lb rock and probably a bill for 400 dollars after waiting a few weeks to mail something back to the company to have them fix it and send it back.
The choice is yours. I've gone 2.2 because it was the cheapest easiest way for me to go, and get good power. I'm not in the interest of putting down 11 second quarter miles or anything. I just wanted a somewhat quick car. I have crotch rockets for going truly fast.
#5
01-22-2010, 01:21 PM
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well im looking for something pretty effin cheap, cuz im gonna be spending my income tax on all this stuff and thats only gonna be about $2200. I also contacted my tuner and he said that my best bet would either be a FMU or a rising rate FPR. adub96 I might actually take up your offer on that stuff you have! Because im really looking for the cheapest and easiest way to do it. Im not looking to get gobs of horsepower. I'm really only wanting to boost about 7-9 psi to start out with till i get more money to actually build the motor. As far as the car goes, the motor is in really good shape, it has 218xxx miles on it, oils been changed regularly and all that good stuff. So yeah, im not gonna be boosting much, i dont want lots of HP right now, and im looking for something cheap and reliable. I really appreciate all the info you guys are giving me!! It's helping a lot! So adub96 if you could pm me all the stuff necessary to get that stuff from you i'll def get back to you on that!!
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