Just Head Gasket....or Worse?

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Old 01-04-2011, 03:31 PM
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Default Just Head Gasket....or Worse?

I bought a 1990 240 with 167,000 miles on it just over 3 months ago.

I've been doing maintenance on it on the weekends including replacing flame trap and oil separator, fuel pump relay, air filter, oil filter and some hoses.

I've been using the car to drive to work 4 times a week, 9 miles each way.

Last week I headed out for work and 2 miles into the drive the car started smoking real bad and sounded like it may have had lost some compression.

I turned around, returned home and parked it. I opened the hood and noticed quite a bit of oil running down the passenger side of the engine which appeared to be originating just above the oil filter at about 10 o'clock.

I spent the last several days trying to trouble shoot that oil leak. I took the timing belt cover off to see if any of the front seals were leaking. Nothing major showed up there. I jacked the car up and looked around the rear seal and again it appeared okay. I checked the oil sender unit and that appears OK.

I took off the oil filter and checked to make sure the old seal was not stuck to the engine and then put a new one back on. I have taken it for a couple of quick test drives (less than a mile each) and each time I return oil is leaking there.

Today after a third quick spin around the culde sac loop in our neighborhood the oil was still leaking AND coolant was coming from the same side of the engine. It was originating from a small, circular hole which is positioned almost directly in the center of the four manifold arms - two on the left, two on the right, circle in the middle. It's also just between the "V" and "O" in volVO on the top of the engine.

I'm guessing I blew a head gasket, but am a little confused because I would have suspected steam and overheating symptoms to accompany it. In fact, considering how quickly the leaks appeared I'm wondering if the gasket wasn't already blown when I bought it and it was patched over with some sealing goo or something.

An independent Volvo shop quoted me $1000 to replace head gasket which includes machining the head.

What I'm wondering is this: does the water pouring out of the circular hole indicate anything significantly more serious than just gasket failure. Could it mean a cracked head? Something else?

(I took out each spark plug earlier today to see if there was oil in them and they were clean. I also just bought a compression tester to check each cylinder.)

If it's "just" the gasket I don't mind tackling it myself as I grew up with my dad working on a bunch of old Volvos and would be able to call on him if I got in a bind.

Any thoughts are much appreciated. Thanks!
 
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Old 01-04-2011, 03:54 PM
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Post a picture if possible ...
 
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Old 01-04-2011, 04:25 PM
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I would drain the oil and check it for antifreeze. If it is brown and milky then I suspect a head gasket. Another trick is to put die into the oil and wash down the motor with a pressure washer. Start it up and look for the leak. If it is as major as you say you would see this quickly. Also when you do the compression check if 2 adjacent cylinders are low then that is a sign also. Is the cam cover gasket leak free. Also sometimes the o-ring in the distributor starts leaking . You might want to see if the freeze out plugs are leaking also. I would also do a pressure test of the cooling system. Keep looking , you'll find it. As for replacing the head gasket if that is a problem then it is not that tough of a job. If you do that just check the valves for leaks . If OK I would not replace them just check the head and block for flatness and put a new gasket on. I've got 307,000 on our 89 and the head is still orign. Good luck
 
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Old 01-04-2011, 05:27 PM
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you have a bad hd. volvos of that vitage will have those symptoms without having been overheated or experiencing any other typical hd problems, they will just leak oil/water. you can probably just replace the hd without doing anyhing to the head but since this car is new to you, you never know what the previous owner did so, the head may be cracked, may have been overheated. at any rate, take off the head and see.
 
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Old 01-04-2011, 08:53 PM
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Clean it and start it. Don't drive it. Just look to see where the leak is. Use your eyes!
If it's at the oil filter area, it's probably the oil cooler. If it's higher up it's probably the head gasket.
I'll bet on the head gasket. Only a couple hours of work, and don't worry about having the head milled. Just clean the head and deck and slap it back together. Maybe put another timing belt on it too, if it's looking oldish.
Ed
 

Last edited by ed7; 01-04-2011 at 08:57 PM.
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Old 01-05-2011, 04:12 AM
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Thanks for all the responses. Update...

1. I pulled dipstick and oil on it is not milky.
2. No coolant in overflow tank. When I poured more in this morning it ran out the same circle hole area I mentioned yesterday. The engine was OFF when I poured the coolant in. I heard it running into the radiator then within 10 seconds heard a bunch of it running on the ground. It was not a drip or two, but spilling out that same area pretty rapidly.
3. I looked in the overflow tank and there is a reddish-orange goo about 1/4 to 1/2 think covering the bottom of the tank. I noticed the same color at a couple of points along the seam where the head gasket would be. Maybe my goo/sealant theory to cover over an already blown gasket? I will post pictures when it gets lighter outside.

I'm going to run the compression check this morning and will post results as well as pictures later. I'm also going to degrease to try to hone in on exact spot of leak(s).

Thanks again for the responses. Much appreciated.
 
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Old 01-05-2011, 08:15 AM
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Are you sure that you don't have a "freeze out plug" that has rusted out and is leaking. Usually if water is coming out of the block with the engine off it is something other then the head gasket.
 
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Old 01-05-2011, 10:25 AM
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Have not heard of "freeze out plug." Would it be in vicinity of leaks I have described? About to take pictures...

Searched for "freeze out plug volvo 240" on google and didn't notice many relevant results in first 5 page results. Will keep searching and also look through the Haynes. Should I invest in the Bentley Bible? I have heard very good things about that book.

Part here: http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/de...e&apwidTd9857y
 
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Old 01-05-2011, 12:14 PM
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Haven't clean engine yet but here is latest.

Started engine and let it idle. Coolant was squirting out of the "circle hole" I've been mentioning. Sort of like a quick, sporadic but consistent super soaker water gun.

I tried to take a couple of pictures showing where the "circle hole" I keep talking about is. Is this the freeze plug?

http://img340.imageshack.us/i/volvoone.jpg/
http://img842.imageshack.us/i/volvo2r.jpg/




It does look rusted.

Also, tried the compression check, per Auto Zone guy's instructions. He told me to unplug the two wires from the ignition coil, screw in the compression checker, then turn the engine over 3 times.

Problem is the engine won't turn over when those 2 wires are not attached to the coil. Any thoughts? Thanks.
 

Last edited by VolvoNuevo; 01-05-2011 at 04:06 PM. Reason: Trying to figure out how to add pictures to a post
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Old 01-05-2011, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by VolvoNuevo
Have not heard of "freeze out plug." Would it be in vicinity of leaks I have described? About to take pictures...

Searched for "freeze out plug volvo 240" on google and didn't notice many relevant results in first 5 page results. Will keep searching and also look through the Haynes. Should I invest in the Bentley Bible? I have heard very good things about that book.

Part here: http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/de...e&apwidTd9857y
When engine blocks are cast there are water passages filled with sand . After the casting is cooled the sand is removed through these holes in the block. These holes are filled with a steel plug , pressed into the block. These are called "freeze out plugs" There may be anywhere between 4-8 of them depending on the engine block. In the old days when people didn't put antifreeze into their cars the water would freeze and pop these plugs out. Thus the name freeze out plug. You will see round disks in the side of the block and they are maybe 1"-1 3/4" dia. Look under the exhaust header on the passenger side and see if you can locate them and see if they are leaking. Quick lesson on freeze out plugs. Good luck
 
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Old 01-05-2011, 03:57 PM
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Thanks for the info about the freeze plugs. I sure hope that hole in the pictures I posted is one of the freeze plugs as coolant was pumping out of the hole really fast while idling today. If it's not a freeze plug I have no idea what that hole is and why it is leaking.
 
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Old 01-05-2011, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by VolvoNuevo
Thanks for the info about the freeze plugs. I sure hope that hole in the pictures I posted is one of the freeze plugs as coolant was pumping out of the hole really fast while idling today. If it's not a freeze plug I have no idea what that hole is and why it is leaking.
Yep , that's the freeze out plug in the head. It is about the size of a quarter. The easy way to do this is to pull the exhaust header and drill a hole in the old plug and pull it out. Get a new one and use a piece of wood and a hammer and bang it in. Good luck.
 
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Old 01-13-2011, 07:34 PM
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I finally got the new freeze plug in. I worked on it for a few evenings over the last couple of weeks. Got the exhaust manifold off, disconnected the tail pipe from the manifold, got the old freeze plug out and new one in.

A couple of tips/thoughts on things I learned:

1. When taking the freeze plug out, I was able to pry it out a little bit with a flat head screw driver, but was unable to pry it out all the way. A guy at the mechanic shop told me to use a chisel/punch and gently tap the edge/lip of the old freeze plug in a circular motion (making sure not to hit the head itself). On the 3rd tap the thing popped loose and feel to the ground.

2. When I took pulled the exhaust manifold off of the tail pipe, the tail pipe fell down and towards the driver's side (it was missing the bolt holding it up - 1st picture). When I was underneath the car this afternoon, reattaching the tail pipe to the manifold, I noticed transmission fluid dripping, which had to have been the result of the tail pipe dropping and hitting one of the tranny lines. Arrrrrgggghhhh. I posted 2 pictures.

3. Don't go by what the Volvo shop tells you as far as size on the head freeze plug is. They gave me one that was way too big. I used my micrometer and the hole came back as exactly 11/16 of an inch on the inside of the hole. I went to Napa and they gave me an 18mm plug and an 11/16 plug. I tried and tried to get the 18mm in and it would not go. So I called the shop and they said the 11/16 plug "sounded right" which surprised me cause I was fully expecting a MM measurement. Anyway, the 11/16 worked great. I used my fingers to squeeze the plug in place which took a few times for it to stay, then placed a 7/16 socket inside the lip of the plug and to drive/tap it in with a hammer. I say "tap" but it was a little more like "hitting" - it went in very snugly but without any other trouble. I was a little surprised that it was harder to get in than I expected. The guy at the shop also told me to put some Loctite on the outside of the plug. I'm letting the Loctite cure overnight and I hope everything works out OK with it.

4. I've attached pictures of the tranny leak. It's on the passenger side line, originating from somewhere in the cover thingy with the bolt on it. I can't tell you enough, make sure you check to make sure the bolt towards the front of the tail pipe is IN PLACE and ATTACHED before removing the manifold from the tail pipe as you will avoid more problems like the one I have now with the damaged tranny line. Any thoughts/links on fixing/troubleshooting a tranny leak in the spot is appreciated.





 
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Old 01-14-2011, 07:03 AM
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glad you found the leak finally, and didn't have to pull the head...

as far as the trans leak, look at the bright side: at least you know your trans fluid looks like new!
 
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Old 01-14-2011, 07:58 AM
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It's likely the lines have corroded under that clamp and started to leak, the hit from the exhaust pipe being the final blow, happened to my '92 940 at 220,000 miles. You could replace the lines or do what I did - cut them and splice them back together with transmission cooler hose and hose clamps. That fix was still working when I retired the car at 484,000 miles.
 
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Old 01-14-2011, 08:28 AM
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OK good going on installing the freeze out plug. As for the transmission line just remember that this is NOT a hi-pressure system so you can just cut the lines and splice in FI rubber hose and hose clamps . You could also just cut the line at the break and put in a compression fitting. Good job.
 
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Old 01-14-2011, 10:40 AM
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Thanks for the tips. Should I run the rubber hose or compression fitting through the same clamp or take the clamp off entirely? I'm guessing the former?
 
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Old 01-14-2011, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by VolvoNuevo
Thanks for the tips. Should I run the rubber hose or compression fitting through the same clamp or take the clamp off entirely? I'm guessing the former?

If the leak is in the clamp area you won't be able to put the hose or fitting in it. You would still need to find a way t clamp it . Be creative.
 
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