I'm trying to start my non turbo 89 240 with b230F auto trans.
I previously replaced the starter motor after someone froze on the key and the gear blew up.so might have done something during that process, I undid one motor mount a bit to get to the 19mm bolt on top. It's in a tight spot.
If I turn the key off then try to start it fires a few times, but won't start.
If i keep the key on then retry it does not fire at all.
If i return the key to off , then try,it fires a bit more.

I put the fuel line to fuel rail in a jar, it fills, so its pumping gas.
I tried quick start, in the throttle body, no difference.
When I start cranking the tachometer jumps for an instant so i think it is getting a pulse from the crankshaft sensor.
I tried swapping the fuel pump relay, under the drivers feet carpet, no difference.
If i put the key on and then connect battery it seems to charge the fuel rail for a moment

I'm trying to remember how to check the codes, it has the little box with LED and a jumper wire

Some fuses look choroded so I can clean fusebox and fuses
I have spare parts for most things, might swap ECU's.

any idea why it fires but only when i=I reset the key to off?

Any obvious things to check? I'm a bit stumped.
Thanks, phil.

 

"Froze on the key"? Not sure what this means, but your ignition switch may be bad, related to all this, causing the problems now.

First, see if any codes are present, might give you a clue.

Crankshaft position sensor OK? Does it have one or a Hall sensor? Either way, look into that.

'89 is a transition year.... I am always skeptical of blaming the ECUs.

 

its got the crankshaft position sensor, not hall sensor. i replaced it a year ago but it wasn't bad, i could try putting the old one back
i found 4 of the 8 teeth.
wife doesnt drive, she tried moving the car, but kept the key to cranking after it started, and gave it throttle while still engaged so it shattered the gear. didn't know to let the key go once it started

 

cleaned fuses , swapped ECU , ICU . crank sensor.
the coil seems to have 12V with key on but with a test lamp across the coil I get some activity , ( pulsating) but only after the key is turned off and then I begin cranking , it fires when I see the lamp lit but it goes out after an engine revolution or two.. If I try to turn it again then I get no test lamp activity and no firing unless I turn the key off..

maybe I need to pull apart the key switch.. or get some test leads in there to see if it's perhaps just a bad ignition switch.. or I might have disturbed something during starter replacement. Im still stuck but at least I cleaned the fuses up nicely. I an pull the key switch from a 740 if that works.. I don't know why the test lamp lights, but wont stay lit or pulsating other than for a second or so.. .. the issue is related to that area I think. if the test lamp on the coil shows activity I get firing but it's not consistent. I\m sure shouldnt be able to keep cranking and not see my test lamp lighing up when connected to the coil leads.

between engine and transmission there is a plate with holes or something and thats near the area where the CPS is. maybe it got damaged by the gear when it shattered I found that the CPS is magnetic and it attracted some small fragmemnts of the gear that shattered from the starter motor.. but my old senor did work and I swapped it out so It doesn't; seem to be the sensor itself that is the issue.. I did find a ding in the plastic like it had a little collision with a stray gear tooth but I dont think it wrecked the sensor.

I once put the whole engine back together and had that tin plate out by one bolt hole and had to pull the transmission again to fix it. it would run like that but wouldnt rev up.. that was years ago. I called the mechainc and said I cant; rev it over 1200 RPM and he was so good he instantly diagnosed the issue over the phone. I was so frustrated after rebuilding the whole engine myself, that I gave in and had the shop pull the tranny and they did it in short order ;-)
phil

 

OK

1. Your starter bendix gear exploded when it was still engaged and engine was revved up
2. You replaced the starter
3. now you have no spark or no spark at the correct time and engine won't catch, (starter spins engine over)

4. I think you are looking in the right place (not the ignition switch) - perhaps a damaged flywheel/flexplate from the broken bendix gear. Don't remember how much of the "tone ring" is visible. But I have replaced flywheels/flexplate due to damaged tone rings.

 

Thanks for that reality check..
I found this pic ( on another forum) that shows the sensor and flex plate and starter.

https://www.swedespeed.com/threads/w...2#post-1643005

I also found this ebay auction that shows pics of the holes, in one pic it looks like it has two holes missing so maybe that is TDC..

https://www.ebay.com/itm/32471359725...QAAOSwYyBg7hJy


It does make sense that the flex plate got damaged. I assume it reads the holes.
I can try to remove the big aluminum brace near the oil pan and maybe I can get a better view of it. I wonder if it mangled the metal, or a bit of gear tooth stuck in there somewhere. maybe I can straighten it without removing the transmission if that is the case. it does seem like the sensor is in the "line of fire" and I know there were some stray bits flying around in there some dropped near the removable plastic screens. The bits I found look like 4 separate teeth. Maybe a larger hunk of it is still stuck up in there somewhere, the gear has 8 teeth. the ring gear seems ok, it cranks over with no weird noises.

The key switch could fail, sure they do, but it seems like too much of a coincidence that the key failed with no intermittent behavior and in conjunction with this little accident.

the 740 I am parting out is a year earlier ( 88) It has the hall sensor in the distributor so I assume it does not even have this flex plate with the holes in it.

 

I agree that the tone ring is a good candidate but may be the damage was caused by a stuck ignition switch causing the starter to explode and damage the gear.

 

Through the holes in the bottom of the transmission i can feel a lump in the plate with holes for the sensor.
im hoping i can straighten it by sticking a couple of screwdrivers to support it against the case and squeeze with needle nose vicegrips. to try to straighten it out.
you can see the deformation in the pic.

 

the bend in the flex plate was part of the no start issue. the sensor also got damaged but it wasn't bad physically, I could only see some small marks in the plastic casing.
once i solved BOTH issues, it starts fine now. problem solved.
the sensor has 3 pins
with it disconnected, i only had continuity between 2 of the pins

the damaged sensor reads 184 ohms between those pins, my working sensor reads 252 ohms.

it was easier to straighten it through the access holes in the bottom of the transmission than to pull the engune or the transmission.

To all who replied, thanks for the help -
Phil