To be honest, I can't recall hearing clacking from these engines when the valves are slightly out of adjustment. It's been a while since I have checked some. But I want to doubt that being at the low 20's would cause significant noise.

 

Actually the valve clearance is smaller cold than hot, remember both the aluminium head and the valve stems lenghten with heat and AL expands more per degree than the steel "22 vs 14.5" hence making the gap between cam and follower larger with increasing temps. fresh pliable hushers should cushen that 3 or 4 thousanths extra gap reducing the harmless yet annoying noise.
I remember back in the day 60's/70's GM motors always had noiseless hydralic lifters but needed a valve job every 100k miles or so. everything has a trade off.

 

Could be but I'm going to do both. Doesn't matter which helps. My main goal is to quiet the valves and not pound a valve seat or burn a valve.

 

If anybody's still interested here's the latest update on my adventure. I adjusted the valves and installed new hushers. Didn't make a bit of difference. But I'm still glad I did it. My problem IS oil pressure or lack of. As before, the chatter only happens when I wait longer than 40 seconds to restart, after a warm shutdown. If I restart in less than 40 seconds there's still enough oil up top to lube everything. After that it drains and has to be repumped to the top. Because it never did it when cold I thought it was a viscosity issue, but right now I have Castrol 20w50, and a bottle of Lucas Oil Stabilizer in it, and it still does it. I rechecked the oil pressure and warm idle is 14lbs(or 1 bar) which is low. At 2000 rpm it's 38 lbs which is at the low end. The chart that came with my tester said Volvos up to 1995 should have 35 to 85 lbs at 2000 rpm. Reading some of the repair articles tells me I have either a clogged screen(which I doubt because I've switched oil 3 times in a month and it's always very clean), a worn pump(which I also doubt because it's a Volvo pump with only 40,000 miles on it) or the seals on the pickup tube are blown or pinched and allowing some of that oil pressure to escape) And they say this is a common wear item(who knew?) especially on Turbos. Anyone else have that problem? A very remote possibility is bad rod bearings but there' no knocking, it runs smooth and the car has plenty of power. So, in summation, I'm at the low end of the oil pressure scale. Enough to keep my oil light off but not enough to pump oil quickly to the valves and keep em quiet. Any comments?

 

How many miles on this motor? The normally low oil pressure you say you have should have nothing to do with the oil supposedly draining itself after 40 seconds!
What filter are you using?
And I'm sure you have experimented with different oils but why 20-50 as opposed to recommended 10-30?
Are you sure you don't have "piston slap"?

 

The car (and motor) has 167,000 miles and was religiously maintained by the dealer.
I'm using a Mann filter.
I started with 10-30, went to 40w and finally 20w-50 because it never does it when cold so I assumed it was the thick, cold oil getting to the valves quicker. But that's not the case. Actually, it was a little worse with the 10-30, so thicker oil helped slightly.
Not piston slap. That happens when cold and goes away when warm. My problem is just the opposite. In fact, I'm positive it's low pressure. a lot of people have posted here about their oil lights flickering at idle and all they have to do is rev the engine, build up some pressure and the light goes out. My valve chatter responds the same way.


I believe now that it's metal tolerances expanding when warm. Could be the pump or where the pickup tube seal meets the block?

 

we have a 240 with nearly 500000 miles on the original engine and valves, its perfectly happy with 10W30 in all weather, including desert heat.

 

I plan on going back to that since that's what Volvo recommends. And 50w is too thick for startup, even in mild central Calif.

 

Here's a novel idea: could I have worn cam bearings? Possible, but I don't think it would have the same clickety-click sound of dry valves?

 

Could you explain to me the path of the oil circuit in a redblock? I want to try and figure out any possible blockage that may keep my oil from getting to the top, before I drop the pan and check the bearing clearances.

 

Hard to believe that a b230 with mere 167k and good maintenance would have any significant bottom end wear! You may have the oil pipe at the pump attached wrong thus bleeding off pressure.

Did you mention somewhere that the oil pump was replaced 40k miles ago? Why? By whom? What kind of new pump was installed?

 

replacing an oil pump on a B230 is extremely unusual :-O

I looked through the 240 service greenbooks I have on my CD, and didn't see anything detailing the oil paths inside the b23 or b230 block. I know the oil pump drives oil into all the main bearings, and up into the head, where it goes into the camshaft bearings as well as splashing around and lubricating the cams. later 940 turbo engines had additional oil squirters that lube the piston skirts and cylinder walls.

 

I find this post as pretty much over kill of a non issue. Out of the 3 Volvo's we've had (164 , 240 and 740) the engine noise had been similar. On the 240 and 740 the valves were checked and adjusted at 50K miles and have never needed another adjustment. Sold the 240 at 150K miles and presently have the 740 with 356K miles. This engine is pretty much bullet proof as I have had the typical piston slap starting back at 175K. It sounds like a diesel at startup but somewhat quiets down when warm. Does it have blow by , yes , does it leak some oil , yes (rear seal) and does it burn oil , no. The mfg. at the time we bought the 89 recommended 10W-40 which I use and change now at 5K miles (done at 3K for 1st 15 years). Oil pressure is normal as checked by installing a mechanical gauge in the low oil pressure port next to the filter. If the OP opens the oil fill cap and has the car started cold he will see oil moving is my bet. If he thinks that a port is plugged (highly unlikely ) then just do an engine flush but assuming regular oil changes with high detergent oil there should be no issues. So check the oil pressure cold and hot and if it is not normal then tear it down otherwise live with the noise.

 

Yes, it was a Volvo pump. The oil light was flickering so the shop said it was probably the pickup tube seals. But while they we're in there they replaced the pump, which probably wasn't needed. All pumps do is move volume. Pressure's developed by the bearing clearances. And I agree(and hope) that the bearings clearances are probably within limits. I don't know if they we're checked when the pump was replaced. This guy has a simple explanation:
Either way it looks like I have to drop the pan to find out - seals or bearings.

 

Thanks for looking it up. What I'm guessing is all oil passes thru the filter first(unless it's clogged and then uses the bypass valve) then where does it go? Turbo lines? Camshaft? Does the pump have a pressure relief valve(could that be stuck)? If the camshaft clearances are too big would that delay oil to the valves?

 

I appreciate your comments, and I agree, worrying about piston slap is overkill. Worrying about low oil pressure is not.. I've checked my pressure with a gauge and it's at the low end of the spectrum. If you had a flickering oil light and it wasn't the sensor would you do anything about it? I think most people would. My valve chatter reacts just like a flickering light. Gone when cold, there when hot, and gone when revved. What I'm trying to do here is find out if there's any simple checks or solutions that might help me avoid dropping the pan.

 

Well, it does seem that you have a low oil pressure at idle, so why? Hard to believe this engine is "worn out" with 167k! Are you sure that the miles are correct? Have you run Carfax, Autocheck, or some other surer way to verify the miles, like records? Because I do see "low miles" cars that are anything but! Volvos especially are known for bad odometers.

 

Yes, I bought it from the original owner who knew nothing about cars and took it to the dealer for everything(man! did they gouge him!) So I have 23 years of records and the mileage in the repair records match the speedo. And like I said, there's no rod knocking at all. So it seems to me it has to be the seals which according to the folks on brickboard is a common wear item. One guy who did a tutorial on replacing the seals even built the tube up with JB Weld so the seals wouldn't slip. I think I'll do that if I go that far. And I did do a compression check 2 weeks ago - 165 lbs in all 4 cylinders and clean plugs, no oil burning.


One thought I had is that an oil galley leading to the valves might be plugged. But if that we're the case I'd have valve chatter when cold cuz the cold, thick oil would have an even harder time getting up there. What would really help is if someone could tell me if the cam/valves oil supply comes directly off the filter? Or is it routed thru the turbo lines or somewhere else?

 

The rule of thumb is 10psi per 1000 rpm. So what is your oil pressure. The low oil pressure usually triggers between 5-8 psi. Make a video of the noise and share it with the group. Show us the numbers.

 

My specs:
Cold idle - 20 lbs(1.4 Bar), cold at 2000 rpm - 40 lbs(2.8 Bar)


Hot idle - 12 lbs(1 Bar), hot at 2000 rpm - 36 lbs(2.5 Bar)


Check this out:
https://www.brickboard.com/FAQ/700-9...andReplacement


His after numbers(after repair) at idle are almost twice what mine are at 2000 rpm, quite a difference. And according to the chart that came with my oil pressure tester this year Volvo should have 85 lbs at 2000 rpm.


If not for the noise I would ignore this but the noise is a warning. I've come across a few Volvo comments that say if you wait for the light to come on you've waited too long.