Random brake failure?

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Old 07-22-2019, 05:59 PM
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Default Random brake failure?

I bought a 1991 Volvo 240 yesterday that just had brakes done recently on it and a whole bunch of other recent updates/etc. I pull into the gas station about 10 miles away to grab a few things and as I put it in reverse to pull out, the brake pedal went all the way to the floor and I had no brakes at all and had to pull the emergency brake to stop it. I called the guy I just bought it from and had him come down to check out the situation. The brakes randomly started working again and he was baffled and basically didnt believe me and said he had never had a problem like that ever. About 45 minutes later im going downhill, no signs of brake issues at all, and they fail again. At this point I called a tow truck because it clearly was not safe to drive another 100 miles back to Massachusetts. I think it could be the master cylinder? Could there be air in the brake lines? The brakes are working again for the second, but I dont dare drive it anywhere in case they fail again. Any suggestions or help appreciated im super enthusiastic about my new 240 and am trying to get this fixed ASAP
(also my brake fluid level is perfectly fine)
 

Last edited by xrodentx; 07-23-2019 at 03:17 PM.
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Old 07-22-2019, 09:56 PM
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check the fluid level in the brake reservoir, and if its low, top them off with DOT3 brake fluid... if it was very low, or up to the line, then they probably should be thoroughly bled again.
 
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Old 07-22-2019, 11:42 PM
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It's the master cylinder. The only thing brake wise that can act randomly like that.
 
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Old 07-23-2019, 12:29 PM
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Any fix on them brakes? I had to change out the seals between the master cylinder and the reservoir on top of the M/C. Cost about 10 dollars for the seals and about 10 minutes, no more leaks. Thread is on here.
 
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Old 07-23-2019, 03:17 PM
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the brake fluid level is perfectly fine :/
 
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Old 07-23-2019, 03:53 PM
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Thats odd, if your pedal is going to the floor you have to have a leak some where. Did you look over the brake job? Everything installed correctly at all four corners? You need to either get a new master cylinder or bleed the brakes. Bleed first and see how they are. What exactly did the brake job entail? New rotors and pads? New calipers? If new calipers def. bleed the system again. Did you do front and back?
 
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Old 07-21-2020, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by xrodentx
I bought a 1991 Volvo 240 yesterday that just had brakes done recently on it and a whole bunch of other recent updates/etc. I pull into the gas station about 10 miles away to grab a few things and as I put it in reverse to pull out, the brake pedal went all the way to the floor and I had no brakes at all and had to pull the emergency brake to stop it. I called the guy I just bought it from and had him come down to check out the situation. The brakes randomly started working again and he was baffled and basically didnt believe me and said he had never had a problem like that ever. About 45 minutes later im going downhill, no signs of brake issues at all, and they fail again. At this point I called a tow truck because it clearly was not safe to drive another 100 miles back to Massachusetts. I think it could be the master cylinder? Could there be air in the brake lines? The brakes are working again for the second, but I dont dare drive it anywhere in case they fail again. Any suggestions or help appreciated im super enthusiastic about my new 240 and am trying to get this fixed ASAP
(also my brake fluid level is perfectly fine)
OMG! This is EXACTLY what happened to me on Friday, and again today. I am shaken to my core. What did you end up doing? I have the exact same car! 1991 Volvo 240. I have owned this exactly 5 days and want to sell it already. Too scary!!!!
 
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Old 07-22-2020, 06:43 PM
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I have heard of brake light switch shorts that boil the fluid in the master.
But more likely a stuck caliper causing boiling.
Except, you should only lose half the brakes.....

 
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Old 07-22-2020, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Often Befuddled
1. I have heard of brake light switch shorts that boil the fluid in the master.

2. But more likely a stuck caliper causing boiling.
3. Except, you should only lose half the brakes.....
1. No, not a chance
2. Yes, more than likely
3. Yes, 1/2 of both fronts and 1 rear caliper on 1/2 of the dual master cylinder. However if 1 side fails the pedal will go almost all the way to the floor before any brakes will work. The car will still stop but it really freaks people out!
 
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Old 07-22-2020, 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by hoonk
1. No, not a chance
2. Yes, more than likely
3. Yes, 1/2 of both fronts and 1 rear caliper on 1/2 of the dual master cylinder. However if 1 side fails the pedal will go almost all the way to the floor before any brakes will work. The car will still stop but it really freaks people out!
Finding a sticking caliper is pretty straightforward.
But if there is any doubt, replacing the master is a sanguine move.
 
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Old 07-22-2020, 07:45 PM
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with a pre-abs 240, if one brake circuit fails, you get 50% braking force at BOTH front wheels and one rear wheel.

with an ABS 240, you get one front wheel, and the opposite rear wheel
 
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Old 07-22-2020, 09:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Often Befuddled
replacing the master is a sanguine move.
Certainly - IF IT'S BAD -
 
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Old 07-23-2020, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by pierce
with a pre-abs 240, if one brake circuit fails, you get 50% braking force at BOTH front wheels and one rear wheel.

with an ABS 240, you get one front wheel, and the opposite rear wheel
Thanks. This was the first car I've worked on with ABS but no wheel sensors.
 
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Old 07-23-2020, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Often Befuddled
This was the first car I've worked on with ABS but no wheel sensors.
?
The ABS cars have 3 sensors. 2 front wheel sensors and the speed sensor on the differential that is also used for the speedometer.
 
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Old 07-23-2020, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by hoonk
?
The ABS cars have 3 sensors. 2 front wheel sensors and the speed sensor on the differential that is also used for the speedometer.
yeah, that. few 240's have ABS, most 740 after some year, and all 940's do.

a 240 without ABS has two brake lines going to each front wheel caliber, one to each of two sets of cylinders. a 240 WITH ABS has only a single brake line to each front caliber, and has this big block o ABS stuff under the hood forward of the left suspension tower.

 
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Old 07-24-2020, 07:05 AM
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Any request? Master cylinder, rotors labor, + nominal fee, mark up %$, and shipping still less hassel then all that.

$150, refurbished repaired replaced 25 tooth gear, trip button, and service reset button switch spring. Test and verified operational in my 93 240 SW . It does need a service / warning 1 bulb , and Ill find the 1 missing screw from back 1 of 8 mounting screws when i vacuum today 🤣 pic on request or maybe video ? Oooh! Awwwe!😎
 

Last edited by 93240SW; 07-24-2020 at 07:15 AM.
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Old 07-24-2020, 07:21 AM
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91, So many parts so little time!

91 740, tow bar any buddy?

87 740, so this "tool bag" walks thru the yard busting head lights. Cant fix stupid. Like knock out his headlights.
 
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Old 07-27-2020, 07:06 PM
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thars gold in them thar hills ...
 
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