California smog test fail
#22
Update, not good
I replaced the plugs, plug wires and coil as well as the vacuum lines that they didn't like. Today I went for a re test and the HC (hydro carbons, I think) went up 4 PPM at 15 MPH since that last test 3 weeks ago. What is going on? It runs better with the new stuff but the increase put me over the limit so it failed. It actually passed the smog part the first time but failed the visual, this time it passed the visual but failed the smog part. This is a one man shop on the weekends so he was running back and forth to the office and had the car idling for a long time between various things he had to do.
I replaced the plugs, plug wires and coil as well as the vacuum lines that they didn't like. Today I went for a re test and the HC (hydro carbons, I think) went up 4 PPM at 15 MPH since that last test 3 weeks ago. What is going on? It runs better with the new stuff but the increase put me over the limit so it failed. It actually passed the smog part the first time but failed the visual, this time it passed the visual but failed the smog part. This is a one man shop on the weekends so he was running back and forth to the office and had the car idling for a long time between various things he had to do.
#23
#24
You could try adding 25% E85 to your tank to see if it might help with the HC level. Same idea as Kyle17428s of adding "Heet". I run it without any problem but for the higher octane, not emissions.
Idling isn't a good thing with regards to emissions tests. Up to a point (glowing red!) the hotter a converter is the more efficient it is in converting all the nasty stuff to good.
Almost everyone recommends taking your car out on the freeway to get it up to temp and then trying to get it tested right away. Not after sitting at idle and cooling back down. Is your dash temp gauge at about the 3 O'clock position ??
I used to do emissions testing/repairs in Minnesota before they dropped the program.
You might want to check the thermostat and make sure you're getting 190/195 degrees at idle. A cooler running engine will also make the computer go rich and flunk you. Especially if it's just sitting idling. There also isn't enough exhaust flow to keep the cat hot as there isn't as much of the emissions going into the cat and being converted which causes heat during the conversion and helps it's own conversion to "clean".
Average car, average cat and at idle there is enough capacity to clean the exhaust but at idle it's not as efficient as when it's doing 70mph and the engines heat is really warming the cat up and it has a lot of emissions to convert as that conversion also adds heat. At speed and under load it when a cat works best.
Are you sure you have good compression ?? Just one low cylinder will also cause a higher HC reading from poor, incomplete combustion.
AND . . . since you pulled and replaced the good vacuum lines with black rubber any chance one is loose or got knocked off in the process and you have a vac leak ?? Notice your RPM is a bit higher than usual at idle ??
My car, I'd toss a little E85 in and find a shop that can run the tests without letting your car sit between phone calls.
Idling isn't a good thing with regards to emissions tests. Up to a point (glowing red!) the hotter a converter is the more efficient it is in converting all the nasty stuff to good.
Almost everyone recommends taking your car out on the freeway to get it up to temp and then trying to get it tested right away. Not after sitting at idle and cooling back down. Is your dash temp gauge at about the 3 O'clock position ??
I used to do emissions testing/repairs in Minnesota before they dropped the program.
You might want to check the thermostat and make sure you're getting 190/195 degrees at idle. A cooler running engine will also make the computer go rich and flunk you. Especially if it's just sitting idling. There also isn't enough exhaust flow to keep the cat hot as there isn't as much of the emissions going into the cat and being converted which causes heat during the conversion and helps it's own conversion to "clean".
Average car, average cat and at idle there is enough capacity to clean the exhaust but at idle it's not as efficient as when it's doing 70mph and the engines heat is really warming the cat up and it has a lot of emissions to convert as that conversion also adds heat. At speed and under load it when a cat works best.
Are you sure you have good compression ?? Just one low cylinder will also cause a higher HC reading from poor, incomplete combustion.
AND . . . since you pulled and replaced the good vacuum lines with black rubber any chance one is loose or got knocked off in the process and you have a vac leak ?? Notice your RPM is a bit higher than usual at idle ??
My car, I'd toss a little E85 in and find a shop that can run the tests without letting your car sit between phone calls.
#25
#26
The temp gauge was showing a little low at the time of the test. I had put some Sea Foam in the crankcase a few days ago, would that cause a problem? I am confused by the idea of adding E85 and running lower octane fuel, sounds contradictory. I have been running premium fuel.
#27
One purported advantage of E85 over conventional gasoline is a reduction in tailpipe emissions, if one disregards the fact that E85 increases the emissions of acetaldehyde from vehicles.[2] Another advantage of E85 is a higher octane rating, which improves engine performance and reduces engine heat and wear.
I can see where it might be a bit confusing if you take my recommendation of adding alcohol, E85 with Kyle's to use regular to lower the octane. The alcohol burns cleaner than any grade of gasoline. IF, CA had E85 available you could dilute what fuel you have and add some and if all you're looking at is 5 or 10ppm to pass that should get you by. Or you could run most of the premium out and go with regular for the test or do both. Any of those three options should help lower the HCs.
The E85 would work the same added to regular or premium and it would raise the octane of either but that raise in octane is with cleaner burning alcohol so it's not creating a problem but it does sound contradictory when you first look at it.
The Seafoam likely does give off some HCs as it's a petroleum product but the vapors are grabbed by the breather system (black box) and routed into the intake to be burned so the Seafoam shouldn't matter.
I can see where it might be a bit confusing if you take my recommendation of adding alcohol, E85 with Kyle's to use regular to lower the octane. The alcohol burns cleaner than any grade of gasoline. IF, CA had E85 available you could dilute what fuel you have and add some and if all you're looking at is 5 or 10ppm to pass that should get you by. Or you could run most of the premium out and go with regular for the test or do both. Any of those three options should help lower the HCs.
The E85 would work the same added to regular or premium and it would raise the octane of either but that raise in octane is with cleaner burning alcohol so it's not creating a problem but it does sound contradictory when you first look at it.
The Seafoam likely does give off some HCs as it's a petroleum product but the vapors are grabbed by the breather system (black box) and routed into the intake to be burned so the Seafoam shouldn't matter.
#28
Smog test update
As I said when I started this thread, the first time I took it in it failed the visual but passed the actual test. At that time it just passed the hydrocarbon test at 15 MPH. I changed the hoses and it passed visual but failed the hydrocarbon at 15 MPH. I just took it in for another test and it failed the hydrocarbon test at 25 MPH but passed at 15 MPH.
After the first fail I replaced the plugs, plug wires and coil with red one from IPD and I replaced the air filter.
Does anyone have any suggestions where to go from here. Could it be a bad/plugged EGR valve or burnt exhaust valve or what. I need this car, can't afford a new car, and I think this is fixable but how?
The images are the test results
As I said when I started this thread, the first time I took it in it failed the visual but passed the actual test. At that time it just passed the hydrocarbon test at 15 MPH. I changed the hoses and it passed visual but failed the hydrocarbon at 15 MPH. I just took it in for another test and it failed the hydrocarbon test at 25 MPH but passed at 15 MPH.
After the first fail I replaced the plugs, plug wires and coil with red one from IPD and I replaced the air filter.
Does anyone have any suggestions where to go from here. Could it be a bad/plugged EGR valve or burnt exhaust valve or what. I need this car, can't afford a new car, and I think this is fixable but how?
The images are the test results
Last edited by Phil 850; 07-06-2014 at 02:08 PM.
#31
AirCare emissions testing program | Repair Info - Causes of Excess HC Emissions
It's possible your cat convertor is about done?
Do you have an OBD scanner; what's your LTFT (long term fuel trim)?
Last edited by gdog; 07-08-2014 at 12:04 AM.
#35
I finally got a chance to look at a lot of stuff on the car and run all code tests. I found one vac hose off and in the codes it says it is not seeing or seeing the wrong info on the oxygen sensor. When I look at FCP or IPD it lists a front sensor and a rear sensor but my manual only refers to the front one, is there a rear one also?
#37
#38
#39
#40
I changed out the oxygen sensor today and I can feel a difference in how the car runs. The wiring connector was a pain in that you can see it or handle it but not both at the same time and it took a little while to figure out how the latch released. Now I want to clean out the egr valve but I don't see how it comes off, any suggestions? The manual says to remove all kinds of stuff first and some one else said to take off the intake manifold.
Last edited by Phil 850; 08-17-2014 at 12:50 PM.