Volvo 850 Made from 1993 to 1997, this Volvo line was available in both a wagon and a sedan, both with were graced with several trim levels.

California smog test fail

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
  #21  
Old 02-26-2014 | 11:47 PM
Phil 850's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 472
Likes: 1
From: Sonoma County, California
Default

Interesting note, after a few days with the new coil I am noticing an increase in miles per gallon. I wasn't even looking for that but it's a nice bonus.
 
  #22  
Old 03-01-2014 | 02:57 PM
Phil 850's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 472
Likes: 1
From: Sonoma County, California
Default

Update, not good
I replaced the plugs, plug wires and coil as well as the vacuum lines that they didn't like. Today I went for a re test and the HC (hydro carbons, I think) went up 4 PPM at 15 MPH since that last test 3 weeks ago. What is going on? It runs better with the new stuff but the increase put me over the limit so it failed. It actually passed the smog part the first time but failed the visual, this time it passed the visual but failed the smog part. This is a one man shop on the weekends so he was running back and forth to the office and had the car idling for a long time between various things he had to do.
 
  #23  
Old 03-01-2014 | 04:37 PM
kyle17428's Avatar
Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
From: Long Beach, CA
Default

Hc's are caused by unburned fuel. The idling actually should have helped the HC levels. If you need to pass quick try using methyl alcohol (such as heet) or use lower octaine fuel if you run premium. Or, if I were you, id just go elsewhere. This mechanic sounds like a putz.
 
  #24  
Old 03-01-2014 | 05:20 PM
Kiss4aFrog's Avatar
Administrator
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,516
Likes: 11
From: Cape Coral, FL
Default

You could try adding 25% E85 to your tank to see if it might help with the HC level. Same idea as Kyle17428s of adding "Heet". I run it without any problem but for the higher octane, not emissions.

Idling isn't a good thing with regards to emissions tests. Up to a point (glowing red!) the hotter a converter is the more efficient it is in converting all the nasty stuff to good.
Almost everyone recommends taking your car out on the freeway to get it up to temp and then trying to get it tested right away. Not after sitting at idle and cooling back down. Is your dash temp gauge at about the 3 O'clock position ??
I used to do emissions testing/repairs in Minnesota before they dropped the program.

You might want to check the thermostat and make sure you're getting 190/195 degrees at idle. A cooler running engine will also make the computer go rich and flunk you. Especially if it's just sitting idling. There also isn't enough exhaust flow to keep the cat hot as there isn't as much of the emissions going into the cat and being converted which causes heat during the conversion and helps it's own conversion to "clean".
Average car, average cat and at idle there is enough capacity to clean the exhaust but at idle it's not as efficient as when it's doing 70mph and the engines heat is really warming the cat up and it has a lot of emissions to convert as that conversion also adds heat. At speed and under load it when a cat works best.
Are you sure you have good compression ?? Just one low cylinder will also cause a higher HC reading from poor, incomplete combustion.
AND . . . since you pulled and replaced the good vacuum lines with black rubber any chance one is loose or got knocked off in the process and you have a vac leak ?? Notice your RPM is a bit higher than usual at idle ??

My car, I'd toss a little E85 in and find a shop that can run the tests without letting your car sit between phone calls.
 
  #25  
Old 03-02-2014 | 12:11 AM
Phil 850's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 472
Likes: 1
From: Sonoma County, California
Default

The temp gauge was showing a little low at the time of the test. I had put some Sea Foam in the crankcase a few days ago, would that cause a problem? I am confused by the idea of adding E85 and running lower octane fuel, sounds contradictory. I have been running premium fuel.
 
  #26  
Old 03-02-2014 | 08:30 PM
kyle17428's Avatar
Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
From: Long Beach, CA
Default

Originally Posted by Phil 850
The temp gauge was showing a little low at the time of the test. I had put some Sea Foam in the crankcase a few days ago, would that cause a problem? I am confused by the idea of adding E85 and running lower octane fuel, sounds contradictory. I have been running premium fuel.
frog is a bit confused, don't get too turned around. Higher octane fuel needs more energy to burn completely so if you have high hc's more octane will make it worse especially at lower revs. Ethyl alcohol (aka e85) is questionable, not that it matters because its near impossible to find in California from what I've seen. I do agree that your car and cat need to be hot.
 
  #27  
Old 03-02-2014 | 09:16 PM
Kiss4aFrog's Avatar
Administrator
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,516
Likes: 11
From: Cape Coral, FL
Default

One purported advantage of E85 over conventional gasoline is a reduction in tailpipe emissions, if one disregards the fact that E85 increases the emissions of acetaldehyde from vehicles.[2] Another advantage of E85 is a higher octane rating, which improves engine performance and reduces engine heat and wear.

I can see where it might be a bit confusing if you take my recommendation of adding alcohol, E85 with Kyle's to use regular to lower the octane. The alcohol burns cleaner than any grade of gasoline. IF, CA had E85 available you could dilute what fuel you have and add some and if all you're looking at is 5 or 10ppm to pass that should get you by. Or you could run most of the premium out and go with regular for the test or do both. Any of those three options should help lower the HCs.

The E85 would work the same added to regular or premium and it would raise the octane of either but that raise in octane is with cleaner burning alcohol so it's not creating a problem but it does sound contradictory when you first look at it.

The Seafoam likely does give off some HCs as it's a petroleum product but the vapors are grabbed by the breather system (black box) and routed into the intake to be burned so the Seafoam shouldn't matter.
 
  #28  
Old 07-06-2014 | 02:04 PM
Phil 850's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 472
Likes: 1
From: Sonoma County, California
Default

Smog test update
As I said when I started this thread, the first time I took it in it failed the visual but passed the actual test. At that time it just passed the hydrocarbon test at 15 MPH. I changed the hoses and it passed visual but failed the hydrocarbon at 15 MPH. I just took it in for another test and it failed the hydrocarbon test at 25 MPH but passed at 15 MPH.

After the first fail I replaced the plugs, plug wires and coil with red one from IPD and I replaced the air filter.
Does anyone have any suggestions where to go from here. Could it be a bad/plugged EGR valve or burnt exhaust valve or what. I need this car, can't afford a new car, and I think this is fixable but how?
The images are the test results
 
Attached Thumbnails California smog test fail-img015.jpg   California smog test fail-img016.jpg   California smog test fail-img018.jpg  

Last edited by Phil 850; 07-06-2014 at 02:08 PM.
  #29  
Old 07-07-2014 | 03:02 PM
boxpin's Avatar
Super Moderator
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 2,702
Likes: 0
From: Rocklin, Ca
Default

I pass my chevy truck every two years with a breeze using 2 gallons of gas and 1 gallon of Denatured Alcohol from Home Depot. Just say'in...wink wink.
 
  #30  
Old 07-07-2014 | 11:32 PM
Phil 850's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 472
Likes: 1
From: Sonoma County, California
Default

I guess first thing I'll do a dry and wet compression test and if that is all good then maybe try your idea.
 
  #31  
Old 07-08-2014 | 12:01 AM
gdog's Avatar
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,051
Likes: 3
From: Pac NW
Default

Originally Posted by Phil 850
I guess first thing I'll do a dry and wet compression test and if that is all good then maybe try your idea.
That's what I would suggest too. Looking at your test results, the one time you passed (1st one), it was only barely passing; both your HCs and CO are high meaning car is running rich (assuming other systems are in good working order). Ck this link for more details.
AirCare emissions testing program | Repair Info - Causes of Excess HC Emissions

It's possible your cat convertor is about done?

Do you have an OBD scanner; what's your LTFT (long term fuel trim)?
 

Last edited by gdog; 07-08-2014 at 12:04 AM.
  #32  
Old 07-08-2014 | 10:04 PM
gdog's Avatar
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,051
Likes: 3
From: Pac NW
Default

Forgot to mention it before; make sure you have fresh oil in there before you smog test. Gas contaminated engine oil will also give those symptoms.
 
  #33  
Old 07-09-2014 | 08:29 PM
Phil 850's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 472
Likes: 1
From: Sonoma County, California
Default

Originally Posted by gdog

Do you have an OBD scanner; what's your LTFT (long term fuel trim)?
I have an OBDII scanner. How do I determine the LTFT?
 
  #34  
Old 07-16-2014 | 10:05 PM
gdog's Avatar
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,051
Likes: 3
From: Pac NW
Default

Don't know what scanner you have but most support reading the runtime sensor values. Suggest you RTFM for your scanner?
 
  #35  
Old 08-09-2014 | 04:37 PM
Phil 850's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 472
Likes: 1
From: Sonoma County, California
Default

I finally got a chance to look at a lot of stuff on the car and run all code tests. I found one vac hose off and in the codes it says it is not seeing or seeing the wrong info on the oxygen sensor. When I look at FCP or IPD it lists a front sensor and a rear sensor but my manual only refers to the front one, is there a rear one also?
 
  #36  
Old 08-09-2014 | 09:30 PM
Kiss4aFrog's Avatar
Administrator
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,516
Likes: 11
From: Cape Coral, FL
Default

There is an upstream and a downstream O2.
 
  #37  
Old 08-10-2014 | 12:35 AM
Phil 850's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 472
Likes: 1
From: Sonoma County, California
Default

Originally Posted by Kiss4aFrog
There is an upstream and a downstream O2.
OK. Do you know if the code refers to both together or is there any way to tell which one is bad? I got a code 2-1-2 on socket 2 and that says "Heated oxygen signal absent or faulty"
 
  #38  
Old 08-10-2014 | 07:18 AM
Kiss4aFrog's Avatar
Administrator
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,516
Likes: 11
From: Cape Coral, FL
  #39  
Old 08-10-2014 | 02:39 PM
Phil 850's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 472
Likes: 1
From: Sonoma County, California
Default

That's interesting, my Haynes manual skips the 153 code. I have looked all through it and it goes from code 152 to 154 but no 153.
I will bookmark that site, thank you.
 
  #40  
Old 08-16-2014 | 07:56 PM
Phil 850's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 472
Likes: 1
From: Sonoma County, California
Default

I changed out the oxygen sensor today and I can feel a difference in how the car runs. The wiring connector was a pain in that you can see it or handle it but not both at the same time and it took a little while to figure out how the latch released. Now I want to clean out the egr valve but I don't see how it comes off, any suggestions? The manual says to remove all kinds of stuff first and some one else said to take off the intake manifold.
 

Last edited by Phil 850; 08-17-2014 at 12:50 PM.


Quick Reply: California smog test fail



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:21 PM.