Made this post, but it was in the S60 sub-forum.

Copying it here to get a bit more discussion....

https://volvoforums.com/forum/volvo-...98/#post344929

 

Bosch coppers only here... I dont waste money on gimmicks

850's like the coppers more than anything..

 

I'm running AC Delco platinums and have had no problems. That's on an engine with over 300K and fired with an MSD coil.

IMHO I don't think the E3's are worth it or that they do any good. Just my opinion personally and the car guys I know don't use them.

The turbo shop that does a lot of HiPerf modifications in my area swears by champion coppers and just replacing them often (10-20K).

I watched the video and if just the plug alone could get you 7HP I'm sure everyone would be using them.

 

What makes you believe that E3s are a gimmick?

Like I said, I have tried brand new Champions, NGKs, Bosch, and the E3 in a 33cc 2-stroke bicycle engine... and the results are real. All of them seemed to foul out rather quickly, tho... but the E3s were the best of the bunch. I'd say that the Bosches were the worst. NGK & Champion were fairly similar.

But that was only one application. I realize that every motor will likely have its own favorite plug that's different from the next.

The video I showed above shows that results were REAL compared to other plugs, as tested on a dyno.

The E3s are actually copper with a nickel-coating. I'd imagine that platinum and iridium are just coatings as well.

 

Then put E3's in your engine and be happy

Why ask for a discussion and then try to beat us up with your opinion and one video ???

 

Because I've never put E3s in a Volvo. Perhaps the gapping of the non-gappable E3s don't work well with Volvos?? Every application is different, this is why I ask.

But I'd like to see evidence of them being "gimmicky" in applications that I have not tested, as well. Then I might just stick to NGKs as my go to plug.

Also one more question I've got... who makes the OEM Volvo plugs? Bosch?

 

Toss them in there and let us know.

 

I ran then in my car...for three day were junk...popped a check engine light for random misfire, and idle sucked...very uneven. Also, performance dropped. This is in a 94 855 , also firing off an msd coil. Back to OEM Volvo plugs and all is good.

 

This is for a 95 turbo. Champion does NOT make the plug anymore as it's been replaced by a plug with a wider heat range that safely replaces this RC7GYC spec'd plug. They recommended 30K replacements.

The replacement would be Champion copper Part Number: 344 Alternate Part Number: RC9YC

OR for you, an E3.48 in E3 speak

SPARK PLUGS
SPARK PLUG TYPE TABLE

Application - - - - - Bosch - - - - - - - Champion
Turbo ............................................. RC7GYC

SPARK PLUG SPECIFICATIONS TABLE

Application - - Gap - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Torque
- - -- - - - - - - In. (mm) - - - - - - -Ft. Lbs. (N.m)
850 ......... .028-.032 (.70-.80) .............. 18 (25)

 

Were they installed with the threaded end toward the piston

We're you running the E3 sedan plugs in your wagon

Are you sure you watched the video

 

Hey, hey, hey... now... take it easy on me.

Like I said... my only real experience with E3 plugs has been in 1-cylinder engines. They do perform better there, and that's probly the only place they really excel at... which is why they sell them individually near the small engine aisle in the parts stores.

I've been reading some more, and it appears that platinum plugs are the only real waste in spark plugs. Nickel actually has better characteristics, except in terms of melting point... but I don't think engines get to 2600 degrees... so probly isn't a real issue. But yea... iridium is where it's at. See here ---> Iridium spark plugs by NGK and Denso


If you want a long lasting plug, Iridium is the only real option. NGK and Denso both make multiple Iridium plugs. The NGK Laser Iridium and the Denso Long Life Iridium are the ones that are designed for lasting 100k to 120k miles. The NGK IX and Denso Power iridiums are designed with a thinner tip... for performance. But still not sure if thin tip iridiums would be better than copper-only electrodes with no coating. Probly not.

Anyway... E3s may or may not work on certain applications. But I saw one reviewer state that E3s are not the best for car applications, because they are a small manufacturer of plugs. They cannot meet the two most important needs of those who want plugs: (1) how far in the cylinder the spark reaches, and (2) heat range.

For example, I looked up two separate vehicles '97 Volvo 850 and '08 Toyota Corolla... and both took the same E3.48 plug. However, NGK and Denso both have different part numbers for these two different vehicles. Which proves that E3 plugs cannot provide the optimum plug for either one or both of these vehicles.

Lastly... I found these "OE/Specialty" copper plugs listed on RockAuto.com and I'm wondering if these are the actual OEM plugs without the VOLVO branding....

 

Aren't copper plugs typically plated with steel or nickel?? Thereby making the core metal choice rather... moot?

I've heard that the stock Volvo plugs (3-prong in the case of the N/A engine) are platinum. You guys know if this is true? The electrode looks pretty rounded compared to the pics I've seen online of a new plug. Perhaps it's the 3 ground electrodes which are platinum coated??

If performance is your main concern, it would appear to me that you'd be better focused on the COATING rather than whether or not it's got a copper core...

(1) fine wire iridium-iridium (30k mile range)
(2) nickel (??? mile range)
(3) steel (??? mile range)
(5) thicker iridium-platinum (120k mile range)
(5) platinum-platinum (30k mile range?)

{also keeping in mind that there are varying degrees of quality of nickel, and ESPECIALLY steel, so we'll just say that these manufacturers are choosing the most optimum nickel and most optimum steel}

If this is the case, then ANY plug would perform better than the "platinum", "Genuine VOLVO" plug... at least for 5k to 10k miles. But the fine wire iridium-iridium plugs would be the absolute BEST in terms of performance, and the thicker iridium-platinum plugs would offer the SAME exact performance as Genuine Volvo plugs, but actually with 4 times the longevity.

Lastly, I think I might have found the OEM plug manufacturer -- BERU ??? Or is this just an "OEM replacement"?? Is anybody for sure that the Genuine spark plug is manufactured by Bosch, Beru, or otherwise?

 

Lastly, I think I might have found the OEM plug manufacturer -- BERU ??? Or is this just an "OEM replacement"?? Is anybody for sure that the Genuine spark plug is manufactured by Bosch, Beru, or otherwise?

Yes I'm sure, I copied it out of the Volvo service manual and posted it a ways back. For my year and model and equipment it's a Champion, not a Bosch.

I don't have a clue what the Volvo labeled plug you buy from Volvo or FCP or anyone else is or who makes that one.

As for E3 plugs it seems the answer to your question is the people who responded to your original question don't think much of them.

This is for a 95 turbo. Champion does NOT make the plug anymore as it's been replaced by a plug with a wider heat range that safely replaces this RC7GYC spec'd plug. They recommended 30K replacements.

The replacement would be Champion copper Part Number: 344 Alternate Part Number: RC9YC

OR for you, an E3.48 in E3 speak

SPARK PLUGS
SPARK PLUG TYPE TABLE

Application - - - - - Bosch - - - - - - - Champion
Turbo ............................................. RC7GYC

SPARK PLUG SPECIFICATIONS TABLE

Application - - Gap - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Torque
- - -- - - - - - - In. (mm) - - - - - - -Ft. Lbs. (N.m)
850 ......... .028-.032 (.70-.80) .............. 18 (25)

 

Mine is the N/A engine, so that probly means we have different plugs. Read somewhere that the turbos have single ground electrode. Mine has three ground electrodes.... Volvo Spark Plug Kit (850 S70 V70 S60) Genuine Volvo 8642660 | FCP Euro

The more I look at that picture, compared to the BERU brand... https://importecautoparts.com/parts/part_number/8642660

... the more I think that the BERU brand really could be the Genuine Volvo plug manufacturer. Who knows, tho. . . .

And, even tho I like the design of the E3's ground electrode, I'm going to be going with Iridium one way or another. Just don't know whether I want Iridium-Iridium w/ fine wire tip (30k miles), or whether I want Iridium-Platinum w/ slightly thicker tip (120k miles).

If both turbos and non-turbos recommend 30k mi. replacements, then that means they're both likely using platinum plugs.... so I would stick with Iridium-Platinum in that case... and just never worry about replacing them again. That looks to be the way I'm leaning right now, unless I can find out that the Genuine Volvo plug for non-turbos isn't actually a platinum plug.

 

"unless I can find out that the Genuine Volvo plug for non-turbos isn't actually a platinum plug."

Why don't you research (call the dealer) what the original plug was for your specific vehicle instead of just wondering what it is and guess that this or that would work as well or better.

 

Because the conversation would likely go like this....

What type of spark plugs do I need for this non-turbo 850??

Hmm.... let me see. That would be SKU# 8642660.

OK... so who makes that plug?

We do.

OK... so what type of metal is it made of?

The computer doesn't say, but I'd guess it's good metal.

----------------------------

Representatives don't typically know anymore information about the parts of 15 year old vehicles than what I can find on the Internet. It takes an enthusiast to share this information, not the typical employee.

But sure... I guess it's worth a shot.

 

Maybe it's time you took all your new information and go back to the S60 sub-forum since we don't seem to know much about or appreciate the science of the E3 plugs.
What do you think ???

 

Well ,,, then I guess you're screwed.

Screw those E3's in and call it a day.

 

Amen, let this go or buy a set and tell us how it went.

 

Feel free to change the title of this thread to "Spark Plugs"... because I have said several times that I'm not interested in the E3 plugs. They do not provide the necessary heat range for this motor. They may work well in some motors, but there are a number of reports of them NOT working well in this motor. Comprendes? I also found out that E3 plugs are made China... so I won't be using them in any 1-cylinder motors from now on either.

To stick with the non-E3 conversation, as well... here are some non-E3 spark plug videos for fun. I had never seen them before yesterday, so perhaps others have never seen them as well...

Various plugs, but the "coolest" one is at the end -- the VTA 3D plug...

Comparison of regular spark plug to VTA 3D plug (feel free to skip the 5 minutes of removal & installation), HAHAHA...

Powerstar spark plug (probly works as well as the VTA 3D plug, because it doesn't get inside the air/fuel mix as well as regular plugs)...

Anyway.... I, in fact, did call Volvo the other day... and I got ahold of "Lisa". Lisa said that all Volvo spark plugs are platinum, and they've been that way for "quite some time". I asked, "All plugs since '93 have been platinum?" She said, "Yup." So there ya have it... Lisa confirmed 20 years of plugs on various models without needing to look up anything or recommend that I speak to someone else.

I was about 50-50 between stock plugs and iridium. But I think I'll definitely be going with iridium plugs now. Just not sure of NGK or Denso. And not sure whether I want the iridium-platinum (long life) plugs, which shouldn't affect performance whatsoever [for 120k miles]... or the iridium-iridium (power) plugs, which could boost performance over the same recommended range of the stock plugs [30k miles]. This will likely come down to a couple coin tosses.