Hi All. I've got an issue with the rear suspension on my '96 850T. Somewhere along the line it looks like someone pulled a trailer that was too heavy, and bent the rear suspension. Now there is a lot of negative camber on the back wheels that is not adjustable. My question is: If I get a rear suspension from a boneyard (shouldn't be too hard to source), how much work is it to swap it? I've done a lot of searches, but everything seems to come up with rear suspension bushing replacement information, nothing on the replacing the entire suspension.
Thanks
The car:
1996 850T
188,000kms (117,500 miles approx)

 

its not much work at all its more of a pain though

 

Can you elaborate on what is a pain? Rusted bolts? Special tools? Lifting the whole assembly into place while bolting?

 

I'm a little lost as to how pulling a trailer would bend anything in the rear suspension. The trailer hitch is bolted to the unibody and if it bent the unibody you'd need to have the body pulled straight, not any of the suspension parts that bolt to it replaced.
If they did tow an excessively heavy trailer and it somehow damaged the rear springs that would cause it to "squat" in the rear and have negative camber but that would be cured by just putting in new springs. It's a pretty easy job with basic tools.

Is there something that looks bent ?

Does the vehicle look level or can you notice it being lower in the rear ?

Your words.
"Was there ever any resolve to this? I too have negative rear camber, with no obvious signs of damage. I can only assume someone pulled a trailer with a really high tongue weight and bent something. Both sides are the same."

Have you had an alignment or body shop inspect it to tell you what it is that needs to be done to get it back into alignment ?? If you're just assuming it's bent you may be going through a lot of work and end up in the same place you are now. If something is bent it's unlikely it would bend both sides the same. It's possible, it's just unlikely.

 

Thanks Kiss4afrog. I only assumed that maybe the towing was the issue as there were no other signs of damage. I took the car to a Volvo specialist that told me it was probably bent as the camber isn't adjustable. Not sure if this makes a difference - but both sides look to be about the same.
As for your thoughts....the rear does sit a bit low, and the spring are weak (they're easy to compress). I was just taking the mechanics word on the "bent" issue as the camber is not adjustable. Are you sure rear camber is improved with springs? If so, I can do it all myself. That would be fantastic.....

 

When it wasn't you that did "it" it's hard to know the cause, only the results. The suspension in the rear of a Volvo is a little different from what I'm used to but I do know that as a cars springs sag it does affect the alignment angles. Think of the car being up on jack stands with the wheels hanging down. They will be angled in at the bottom because of the arc they travel as the suspension (springs and shocks) go from compression to extension. If you mentally think of pushing up on the wheels past the point of normal "ride height" they should start to spread out at the bottom. Almost all designs have unequal length upper and lower "A" arms and with a strut you are pivoting on just the lower (except for a couple designs that have an upper and lower with a strut, Audi is one I think). So the wheel doesn't stay perfectly vertical because of that arc. If your springs are weak and the vehicle is lower than the specified ride height even if it's adjustable it may not be able to adjust far enough.
If the mechanic was just thinking it was bent,, it might be ,, then again if he is an expert and couldn't tell where ,, maybe not.
I would think he would have checked ride height if he had a customer with a complaint but ......
Did he put it up in the air ??
I have no clue what to tell you on how to inspect those arms for damage but the obvious would be anything that looks flattened or scraped. I'd slide under there with a good light and also check the mounts and or bushings to make sure there is enough of them where they are supposed to be to hold the tolerances. I don't do alignments but I've sent a lot of cars that way because I've found bushings that were pounded out by the lethal Minnesota pot holes. Because it's black rubber and it's dark down there sometimes you think it's there when it isn't
Maybe someone else will jump in with some ideas too?

Before I get hammered ........ The picture doesn't look anything like the front and even less like the rear of your (my) Volvo. But from the picture you can get a better idea of what I'm talking about with the "arc" the wheel travels if you visualize this one going up and down with the lower pivot point being further away from the wheel than the upper one.

 

Thank you again. Good description. The mechanic did raise the car, and I got under it with him to take a look - that's why I was fairly certain there was no obvious damage. I'm no expert so I was hoping for some insight here. You are completely right about the ride height. The mechanic showed me a page from his service manual that states something like "if rear camber is not within spec, check for damaged arms...". This is where it all started. Thankfully....after your comments about weak springs/sag, I did more searching. I found that same page in pdf on some website. I read it again....and the page before states "before checking any alignment, check vehicle ride height...". If the mechanic had read that, he might have had a different answer. I told him before I brought the car in that the back end is pretty saggy. Today I looked at my car again, and kneeled on the back bumper. I'm light (145lbs), and car dropped probably 2-3" at the rear (maybe 1" at the rear wheels). That seems like a lot.

I think going forward I'm going to get some new springs (I already have the new rear shocks) and replace the shocks and springs. Then....if it's still out of whack, then I'll look at a suspension swap. At least all the parts I've purchased up to this point can be re-used. I found a good used rear suspension for $200 locally, so the financial hit isn't too bad. It's just the labour to put it in which I probably won't do myself.....

 

Depending on who you're comfortable with, Rock auto has some good prices on stock springs. I think they were around $50 ea. I think IPD and or FCPgroton also have stock springs. I opted for the sport springs because I am trying to tighten it up a bit plus I made a great buy on ebay. $165 shipped and they were FCP closeouts !! That's 165 for a set of four!

I'd offer you mine but they were most likely original and I had over 270K when I pulled them. You might be right back to the same place in months Just did that this fall and haven't taken them to the recycler yet.

You might want to find out what that ride height spec is and where exactly it's measured at before we get too happy thinking we know what the heck we are talking about !!

I would also suggest you replace the upper shock mounts when you do your shocks. If you don't know when or if they've been done or there is any sign of stress in them. I bought mine with a knocking in the rear that no one could find. Part of the reason they sold it ($300). Pulled up the floor and one shock was sticking through the floor. It blew through the mount. I only did the one and put in KYBs and guess what, yep blew through the other one a couple months later. I like to be thrifty (cheap) too at times but this one bit me in the butt.

The picture on the left is with the car jacked up so you don't see the missing rubber of the mount but that steel plate is almost dropping through the hole.

 

Good deal on the springs! I've been looking but the only ones I can find are from FCP or IPD. They're all scantech tho. The ones from Rockauto would be fine, but the $80 shipping kinda hurts. I'll keep searching.
I can't find the actual normal ride height measurement anywhere. I can measure mine, but it doesn't really tell me anything unless I know what it's supposed to be. I did find one site where someone measured their 850 sedan and came up with about 25" from floor to wheelwell. It would be better if they had measured centre of wheel to wheel well....a measurement off the floor takes into account the tire diameter. More searching I guess. If anyone else out there has a stock 850T and has a minute to measure the rear ride height from centre of rim to wheelwell it would be appreciated!

 

Maybe if you called the dealer you might get a service writer who would be willing to find it for you. That or maybe a Firestone or Goodyear as their alignment techs should, should have it as it should be checked before you do an alignment same as you wouldn't do an alignment if you found loose ball joints or tie rod ends.

This is all I can find on it.

RIDING HEIGHT ADJUSTMENT
Before adjusting alignment, check riding height. Riding
height must be checked with vehicle on level floor and tires properly
inflated. Bounce vehicle several times and allow suspension to settle.
Visually inspect vehicle for signs of abnormal height from
front to rear or side to side. Check passenger and luggage
compartments for extra heavy items and remove if present. Riding
height between left and right side of vehicle should vary less than 1"
(25.4 mm).

 

Well ,,,, maybe a bit more.

850 Turbo Wagon, Suspension Height? - Volvo Forum : Volvo Forums

Volvo 850 (96) Ride Height or Ground Clearance

http://www.volvoclub.org.uk/tech/ser...Suspension.pdf

 

Yeah...that's the same info I found. I talked to my mechanic, and had him measure the 4 850's he has in his lot. They all came in around 14" from centre of wheel to wheelwell. Mine measured 13-1/4". So, I did a little test and measured the angle of the wheel with a laser plumb line, and then jacked the car up a bit to get 14", and measured again. No change. The back wheel is out by 1/2" top to bottom of the RIM....nevermind the tire. Something is definitely wrong. My tires are worn down to the steel belts at the inside...the outside tread is fine.
The mechanic offered a complete rear suspension from a donor car for $300 (including him to remove it) and 4hrs labour to install it in my car, including the new shocks I already have. I think I'm just going to go ahead and get it done. It's a mystery as to why mine is out so much, and on both sides. But....I can't even put new tires on it the way it is. I think I'm going to tackle all the front suspension myself to mitigate some costs. Thanks for all your help so far. I'll keep you posted.....

 

Please do. Now I'm curious.

 

Well...I got the car back today. New (to me) rear suspension installed. It's like a new car. Goes over bumps without the back end swaying, tracks nice and straight, and the car sits better. I think there is a still a little bit of negative camber at the back wheels, but it's probably within spec. I need to do a bit of front end suspension work in the next week or so, then it's off to the best alignment shop in town for tweaking. Thanks for your help.
Given the only accident history is a claim for $2,480 in 1997, it really puzzles me how things could've been off, but they were. Oh well...time to drive it and get my money out of it.

 

Well ,,,, there had to be something bad in there. Glad you have a real seat of the pants improvement for the $$