I am looking at an 99 T5 w/about 125K miles. It has been well maintained. No current issues with the car or leaks. The ECU was re-flashed around 90K miles under the ETM recall. Am I ok, or should I plan that I will have to replace ETM down the line?
Thanks.

 

I thought 1999 was the first year Volvo changed to the ETM?

 

'98s don't have the ETM. are you sure it's a '98?

 

OOps...I should have typed 1999.

 

Okay. Yes... you'll eventually need to replace the ETM. All the reflash does is raise the trouble threshold for when the computer decides to set codes and put it in limp- home mode. It also changes the idle speed slightly, which causes the throttle position sensor film- the part that wears out- to wear in a different place, which prolongs the life of the part. When the ETM finally DOES go, I highly recommend xeMODex's rebuilt units. They solve the problem and guarantee the part for as long as you have the car.

 

All parts will evenuatlly fail on any car. If you elimate cars with parts that will "eventually" fail, you will buy nothing.

 

You might check to see which ETM you have in your car. Get a mirror out and look at the label on the throttle body. The ones that have been re-manufactured are numbered: 8644347 (yellow label). These are the newest ones but there is no guarantee that they will last.

 

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While this is true, there is such a thing as something failing prematurely. Typically, much earlier than the same part on other cars. The vast majority of cars will never need a new throttle body in their lifetime. More than 75% of Volvos produced between 1999 and 2001 will. Many fail before 100,000 miles. This is well outside the norm. Even Volvo has acknowledged this by providing a 10- year or 200,000 mile warranty extension on that particular part. I personally don't consider this a reason to absolutely exclude a 99-01 Volvo from consideration, but if you know about the problem and don't at least acknowledge it exists, you're being foolish. When you get one of these cars that has never had its ETM replaced, you DO need to plan for a particular, almost- assured $1,000 repair that you don't have to with any other cars. Not exactly a non- issue.

 

Oh, and another bit of information: The xeMODex rebuilt ETMs currently sell for $550. The actual repair is quite easy. With this option, ETM failure isn't as serious as it used to be. Volvo dealers are still charging ~$1,000 for the job, including a non- redesigned unit.

When I do them, I typically charge in the neighborhood of $100 for labor, and I always go the xeMODex route. I've only ever had one issue with one of their units, and it was a simple incorrect software install. They rectified the situation quickly and without fuss.

 

It's interesting to hear that you have had such good results with the xeMODex throttle body. My mechanic claims these aftermarket units are not as well engineered as the Volvo unit. Their claim is "who could build a Volvo part better then Volvo?". I'm hoping my remanufactured unit will last for a little while but I'm glad to hear the xeMODex unit is so reliable.

 

"Who can build a Volvo part better than Volvo?", that's a good opinion, but ask iPd and you may get a lot of answers. Not to thread jack but there are a lot of parts on a car that are found to have a little engineering to be desired, which 200,000 people may say, "Man, I wish this part would have had just a little more _______." Then another company redesignes and sells it to the public. So, it's very possible.

 

With regards to the ETM, Volvo didn't engineer it. All automakers rely of other companies to design and manufacture a lot of their parts. Volvos have parts made by Bosch, Nippondenso, Pierburg, and many other companies on them. So do all cars. In the case of the ETM, an Italian company called Magnetti Marelli, which is a subsidiary of FIAT, made them. The sensor that fails is made by CTS, who makes throttle position and other potentiometer- type sensors for lots of different automakers. They were the company that was initially implicated in the Toyota unintended- acceleration debacle (which turned out, much like the Audi debacle in the 80s, to be mostly a result of driver error.) Anyhow, remanufactured parts from ANY company aren't designed by the company who remanufactures them. They are an OEM part that has been returned to factory specifications, and often times, have been modified to rectify some defective or prematurely- wearing part in the original design. Lots of companies do this on lots of parts for every car made. An example: Certain GM vehicles have an issue with intake manifold gasket failure that allows coolant to enter the oil. This is accelerated by a chemical in GM's OEM coolant, but the failure will eventually occur even with standard coolant. The problem is due to the composite plastic used for the OEM gasket carrier.- it can't handle cooling system conditions for extended periods of time. VW/Audi used the same plastic for a number of years on their water pump impellers, with disastrous results. Anyhow, GM never changed the gasket design. An aftermarket company, Fel- Pro, stepped in and came up with a new gasket design that uses a steel carrier. It's far more durable. Yes, it's a bit more expensive, but nowhere near the cost of gasket replacement... or ENGINE replacement if the failure isn't caught immediately.

In the case of the Volvo ETM units (xeMODex also makes them for a few other cars that used the exact same Magnetti Marelli throttle body) they took the problematic part- the carbon- film potentiometer based position sensor, and replaced it with an optical sensor that doesn't have any wear surface to fail. Everything else is left as Magnetti Marelli designed it, because the rest of the unit is built like a brick and rarely ever fails.

There ARE aftermarket, and even remanufactured parts that are poorly designed/ made. Everyone knows about Scan- Tech control arms, for example. They're made with wear surfaces that are softer than OEM, and therefore wear out faster. But as a professional, I've seen many cases where third parties come up with a solution to a problem that exists with an OEM part, and the xeMODex ETM unit is, in my opinion, a great solution. It's less expensive than a new Volvo- supplied unit, and it is redesigned to correct a flaw in the original design- unlike the OEM units. And if one ever DOES fail, xeMODex will replace it for you- again, unlike Volvo. Now, Volvo is to be commended for covering the OEM units for 10 years/ 200,000 miles. But they took forever to do so, and they never corrected the root cause of the problem. The same can be said for the OEM ABS modules. (this same ATE- designed unit is used on lots of other cars, including VWs, Chryslers, Mercedes- Benzes, Audis, and even some GM vehicles, among others. And it fails prematurely on them, too!) But again, there's aftermarket companies that stepped up and solved the problem- in this case, weak solder joints, and rebuild them for less, then offer a lifetime warranty. I use these over OEM units, and do so without hesitation.

 

Like I said, all cars have issues. The Lincoln LS requires a valve cover gasket change after so much time/age but the Volvo doesn't. The valve cover job costs more than the throttle assy on the Volvo.

Please do not write any more essays.

 

WTF!!

Carrots take the time enlighten all of us with valid and pertinent information, and you're gonna give him noise over it? Don't know what you're here for but I for one want to learn and help others do so as well. I was thinking this thread should be made a sticky..

Also i am not familiar with Lincolns but a valve cover gasket repair cost in the neighborhood of $1000? Yikes!!

 

My point is simply that all cars have issues. To zoom a 45,000 ft telescopic lens at the Volvo electronic throttle and declare that those cars should be avoided is, in my opinion, nonsense.

As a dealer selling mainly Volvo, but also other brands, I can deflate any argument to buy or avoid a vehicle. Sometimes, it is just perspective, or lack of seeing the point.

 

If you'd take the time to look at my previous posts on the issue, you'd notice that I'm not one of the ones that tells people to stay away from Volvos equipped with a Magnetti Marelli ETM. My take on it is that people considering one need to be aware of the problem... but that they shouldn't avoid the car because of it. My last post, incidentally, was about the fallacy that aftermarket parts are inherently poor quality. It was an explanation of why I use and recommend xeMODex's reman ETMs instead of Volvo's units. Not once have I said people should stay away from 99-01 Volvos. I just think that people who are considering a 10 year old car ought to know that there's a strong chance that a particular, expensive part will fail, and likely in short order, and that they should be aware of it, and aware of the available options to fix it. My father bought a 2000 S70 GLT SE last year. I looked over the car beforehand, and I recommended he get it. In fact, I'm the one who told him it was available. It has the original ETM still.

As for the Lincoln LS, as an auto mechanic, I couldn't believe that valve cover gasket replacement costs over $1,000. So I looked into it. The parts to do it, using Fel- Pro gaskets, list for under $100. When Ford dealers do it, they also replace all 8 ignition coils, because they apparently tend to short out from the oil. I think that's ridiculous. Replace any failed coils, and clean the others up with electronic cleaner. Regardless, even if you HAVE to replace all 8, they can be had for $50 or less. So we're talking- at most- $500 for parts, and say, 3 hours labor @ 85.00/hr, which is the going rate at an independent shop in my area, which adds up to $755. Not a cheap job, but again, why would you replace a coil that hasn't actually failed? Not only this, but in this case, I find that Ford, as well as aftermarket suppliers, have redesigned the gasket so that the problem doesn't occur again. So if you buy a car that's already had it fixed, you don't have to worry about it. In the case of a Volvo that's had the ETM replaced, it's still the same, flawed design, meaning it might fail again at some point. Again, NOT necessarily a reason to stay away from the car, but you'd be a fool to consider a $6,000 purchase without taking that eventual, unusual on other cars $1,000 repair into account.

 

Sounds like back-peddling to me.

 

You can say it's backpedaling all you want. I'm sorry, but I've never said to avoid these cars, only to consider that issue when looking at one. This is across multiple threads and discussions, not just this one. I give 99-01 Volvos a much bigger break that most people here do, and I always have. In this discussion, my original post was to inform the OP that there are better and less expensive options than going to the dealer to get it fixed. Yes, I said that the ETM probably will fail. This is because that's a true statement- UNLIKE the throttle bodies on most other cars, the throttle bodies on 99-01 Volvos typically fail before 150,000 miles. Again, I didn't tell him not to buy it, only to consider that issue.

 

There are far more considerations when purchasing a vehicle than this item. I see that you are in Columbus OH. Here, no one will buy a car that is from "up north" due to the severe rust damage that occurs on those vehicles. When a string of northern cars shows up at the dealer auction, everyone runs away.

 

Carrots, thanks for the essay. We often complain about what people do wrong without appreciating what they do right. It's a part I'll keep an eye on.

Also wish I had read it before my grandparents dropped a grand having the ABS module replaced at the dealership.