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Muscle Car Mechanic nightmare continues!

  #1  
Old 01-07-2009, 10:43 AM
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Default Muscle Car Mechanic nightmare continues!

Hello everyone, you may remember me posting here a few months back about a friends s-80 non turbo that threw a timing belt.

Well, the car is still sitting in the corner of the shop. After having the head machined and new valves installed, there was no compression. I removed the head and found out that the valve clearance was set up wrong at the machine shop.

Does anyone know the intake, and exhaust valve clearance, so that i can get the car running again? ( base circle of cam clearance to button?)

Thanks in advance,

Muscle Car Mike,

A thankful, V8 mechanic!


 
  #2  
Old 01-07-2009, 11:01 AM
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Default RE: Muscle Car Mechanic nightmare continues!

Sorry I don't but they really must have messed something up if they replaced valves and you had no compression.

Did the lifters pump up all the way?
 
  #3  
Old 01-07-2009, 04:43 PM
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Default RE: Muscle Car Mechanic nightmare continues!

Ha Ha Tech you got me there! Lifters pumping up? Very funny.. very funny.

The Intake valves were all replaced at the machine shop, and all the intake and exhaust valves were ground. The problem is that the valve tips are contacting the buttons (lifters) at the base circle of the cam, thus all 12 intake valves are "open" at all times.

The guy at the machine shop called and said he has the clearance specs for a turbo model, but not a non turbo. He wants to know if we are willing to roll the dice and have the clearance set as per a turbo model. Im just not sure about that.. my instinct says go for it, but thats probably due to the car taking up valuable real estate at the shop.

With the cams installed, head off car, you could clearly see light from the intake port in the head going past all 12 valves. Hard to get compression that way.

So what i basically need is the seat height for the valves, but preferably the clearance from "lifter" to camshaft. That way we can use the buttons we have and get it set right on all 24.

PS. Whats the weather like? Snow and hail here, cold and rainy, just miserable. Just think today I had the top down on the 88 5.0. Dropped her 2" all around, 18X10 Roush wheels, Sweet!!
 
  #4  
Old 01-07-2009, 05:00 PM
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Default RE: Muscle Car Mechanic nightmare continues!

I forget did the car have hydrolic or solid lifters?
If it had solid lifters then you might need to order lifter buckets to get them all within specs.
They might just be in the wrong places. They were all supposed to me marked and installed back in the same place when going back together.

I will try to look up the clearance valve for the solid lifter engines and get back to you.

We had a cold front come through. I watched it start raining and watched the temp drop for just over 70 degrees to 58 in minutes.

Then after the sun came out it went back to about 64.

Stang sounds sweet. I miss mine running
 
  #5  
Old 01-07-2009, 05:33 PM
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Default RE: Muscle Car Mechanic nightmare continues!

Ok found some specs. Intake 0.20 +- 0.03MM Exhaust 0.40 +- 0.03MM
Hope that helps
 
  #6  
Old 01-09-2009, 07:18 AM
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Default RE: Muscle Car Mechanic nightmare continues!

Hey Tech, yeah thanks that helps a lot. Now i can get through this part anyhow..

Whats wrong with the stang? You building a new engine or something? Man I got a ton of extra parts lying around from a junked 88 if you need anything.

Weather here is turning cold again, just got out of the gym. Put 540 on the leg press this am, damn that felt good!!!
 
  #7  
Old 01-09-2009, 08:49 AM
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Default RE: Muscle Car Mechanic nightmare continues!

Long story short running a Non-ho motor at the moment.
Have a stock cam and rest of the parts in the garage to convert to a roller motor.
It is also getting a Ported GT-40 intake and 65MM throttle body.

But Garage still packed and not much room to move to pull the motor to swap the parts.

Hoping to get started on it soon I miss driving it.



 
  #8  
Old 01-12-2009, 03:25 PM
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Default RE: Muscle Car Mechanic nightmare continues!

Cool. I have a spider assembly if you need it (roller lifter locks) from a HO 302. Hopefully you can get the garage cleaned out and get that bad boy back on the road soon.Sounds like a pretty nasty little setup your building.
 
  #9  
Old 01-12-2009, 05:00 PM
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Default RE: Muscle Car Mechanic nightmare continues!

Thanks for the offer I was lucky and got the lifters,pushrods,spider for like $30.00 shipped off of e-bay.
As soon as I got the parts I dropped the lifters in oil and they have been sitting there since.

I hope I can get it done soon as well cannot wait to drive it again. I miss driving a stick car.
 
  #10  
Old 01-20-2009, 02:08 PM
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Default RE: Muscle Car Mechanic nightmare continues!

Well here is the latest. I put the head on, cams, timing belt etc.. No compression. So I removed the head again and installed the cams. The machine shop has got the clearances right, no open valves etc when the cams are riding the base circle.

But no compression? I put the cams in according to the shop manual. Both timing marks lined up etc, piston at TDC, still nothing? The only thing i did not do was insert the crank lock tool. But the piston was right on TDC.

What gives? Any suggestions guys?

PS. Tech I know what ya mean about the stick, its addictive. We took out the 1970 Z28 pushing about 450 HP at the rear wheels yesterday. Muncie 4 speed. Nice bark out of 2nd and 3rd even with the posi and some fat rubber out back. At least that one is running right.. The Volvo is driving me nuts! I wonder if we should just part it out??
 
  #11  
Old 01-20-2009, 02:20 PM
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Default RE: Muscle Car Mechanic nightmare continues!

I still wonder if the machine shop did something wrong.

Did they make a tool to compress the cam down while setting the clearance?

If the lifters are not hydrolic which I believe they are not we already had this dicussion.

Then the cam needs to be clamped down with a special tool to measure the clearance. Then adjust from there.

How many did he have to change?

I still think it is something the machine shop did.

To set these lifters up you need to buy over 1K worth of tools and parts to be abole to set it up right.

And just to make sure we are 100% correct on the lifters. Does the cam cover have torxes screws in the cam cover around the spark plug holes?
 
  #12  
Old 01-21-2009, 02:33 PM
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Default RE: Muscle Car Mechanic nightmare continues!

Hey Tech, Yes the cover has those torx screws you are referring to. Im not sure how they checked the clearance specs, but what i did was install the cams (and tighten down the cover). I marked those cylinders which would be "closed" due to the cams being in a position that would place the round, base circle portion of the cam directly in contact with the cam lifter "buttons".

When inspecting those cylinders which were marked, i noted that the valves were shut tight. This makes me think that at least on those cylinders i should have some compression. I am getting no compression at all.

The instructions i have for installing the cams tell me that one cam is above, and one below and imaginary centerline. I have installed them this way and found that when I do, both cams are showing the timing marks pointing straight up at the timing cover alignment. The engine has been set at TDC, and i have installed the timing belt without moving the cams, or the crank.

I have also followed the instructions for "centering" the VVT pulley once the cams are installed, so I am at a total loss here.

It seems that somehow the cams are stillout of time, at least the intake cam, because all of the blowby is escaping directly out of the intake manifold. Indicating the intake cam is still holding the valves open on the compressions stroke.

Im trying to solve this with all the logic i can muster, but to no avail.

Simplest point being; The intake cam is showing the valves fully closed when installed and sitting on the bench, thus, it must be in the timing.

Somehow, that intake cam is "out of time". My diagram shows the intake cam being put in at 1 1/2 cogs before tdc (timing mark alignment at timing cover). Thats bizzare, i would have thought to line them both up with the timing marks, and install the belt in that position.

Im Perplexed.




 
  #13  
Old 01-21-2009, 02:59 PM
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Default RE: Muscle Car Mechanic nightmare continues!

The marks should be lined up when the belt goes in. The 1.5 cogs refers to setting the pulley up.

Man I wish you had a cam lock tool that would assume the cams are where they should be.

Ok it has the torxes screws so yes solid lifters I just hope they have them all adjusted properly.

I understand it is a pain. But you really need to have the cam lock tool to make sure they are lined up properly.
 
  #14  
Old 01-21-2009, 05:18 PM
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Default RE: Muscle Car Mechanic nightmare continues!

Tech I can tell you this about the cams, I am making dead sure that they are parallel to the head or "in plane" with the head before proceeding to the timing belt.

I am a little confused about the 1 1/2 cog deal though. I better go back and read those directions again.

Ill let you know what happens, hopefully not 12 bent valves!
 
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