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Timing Belt precautions!!

  #21  
Old 02-14-2017, 04:30 PM
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...the Volvo dealership "expert" (a very respectable dealership they say) said if the crank is turning without the cams, the valves are surely bent. That is totally false, and identifies a misunderstanding of the mechanics of their engines. I don't think they were trying to sell me anything...I just think they had this "doomsday" mentality about the timing belt slipping off, which may not be accurate?
 
  #22  
Old 02-14-2017, 04:46 PM
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Just saw you're talking about the old 4 cylinder. I can't say I've seen those with bent valves. Next time I do a timing belt on one, I'll try to spin the cams all the way around by hand with the belt off.

The 5 and 6 cylinders do indeed bend valves.

Just curious, was the belt ever changed on this car? Despite your claim that the tensioner is weak, I can't say I've ever seen one fail prematurely (with the exception of cheap aftermarket ones)
 
  #23  
Old 02-14-2017, 06:30 PM
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I doubt the belt was ever replaced. The belt was seemingly in decent shape but 17yrs old by now. Car has just 105K miles. Definitely past time to replace. We bought the car about a year ago, and yeh I suggested to my GF to replace the belt.
Tensioner bearing fell apart, somehow...***** dropped out everywhere and inner race came off the outer race. Looked like the belt had been running with the tensioner misaligned, but the mounting bolt was still in place. It never "complained" with screeching or the like, which is weird for a bearing of that size to just fall apart.
 
  #24  
Old 02-14-2017, 06:31 PM
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I would say it was engineered pretty well then. It should have been replaced after 10 years and lasted 17.
 
  #25  
Old 02-14-2017, 11:16 PM
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Originally Posted by ES6T View Post
I would say it was engineered pretty well then. It should have been replaced after 10 years and lasted 17.
...50 cents more for an extra bolt and thicker steel and the tensioner would probably outlast the engine. The original bearing is NST (made in China), but then again, everything is made in China.

I'm not blaming a 17 yr old car for slipping an original timing belt tho. I mean, I suggested she buy a 17yr old volvo for their safety and mechanical reliability. Probably not on par with Toyota or Honda, but the used S40's are dirt cheap for a good car.

The point of my post is to highlight that a slipped belt doesn't mean bent valves, as pretty much everyone is led to believe. Maybe someone will read this one day and save their engine instead of send their car to the scrapyard. It's probably more likely that when ppl try to replace their timing belt after breakage or slippage, they're not getting the marks right, which also makes the engine run rough, like bent valves. I found it a bit challenging to interpret the marks and not leave an extra tooth of slack on the tight side of the timing belt.
 
  #26  
Old 02-15-2017, 06:45 AM
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Hondas and Toyotas need timing belts changed too. Thicker steel and another bolt won't help a bearing from coming apart. I've never once had a case where the steel or the bolt was a problem.

If someone reads this and wants to try to save their engine and they are doing it themselves, go for it. But when a 5 cylinder comes in with the belt off, I can sell them a new belt kit plus about 4.5 hours labor to retime the engine. Then when it doesn't run and I tell them it needs a head for another couple grand, they will come on the boards and say I ripped them off because I work at the "stealership".
 
  #27  
Old 02-15-2017, 11:39 AM
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@ES6T: If you're being honest with your customers, there's not a problem. It's a big problem when the only option for timing belt change after breakage is a $5k new engine due to misdiagnosis of the mechanical issue. Are they worried about liability, or a customer not being satisfied with the outcome...maybe?
Does it bother you that people can replace this belt on their own without a new engine?
 
  #28  
Old 02-15-2017, 11:51 AM
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First, I don't recommend an engine for bent valves.

Second, if I tell you "Sure, there is a chance it can be re-timed. It will be $700 to do it and replace the belt", that isn't being honest. Because then I'm calling back saying "Well, that didn't work. You need a head for $3000 in addition to the $700 you already owe me." you aren't going to be very happy.

The way I handle it is with an inspection camera. The customer is paying an hour diagnosis. So I pull the plugs and put a camera in the cylinder. When I see every intake valve is open, it needs a head. Care to guess how many times I haven't seen all the valves open?

It doesn't bother me that you put a belt on. Good for you. What bothers me is when I have customers argue with me because they saw something on the internet. So this post can surely cause someone with a different car and different engine to falsely believe that I can just put a belt on and I am ripping them off.
 
  #29  
Old 02-15-2017, 12:01 PM
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Right on, your scoping it then. So you shouldn't ever have the customer issues your so afraid of.

So you think information should be withheld because people can't be trusted with it.
...I just think you like to argue. I'm done responding here...this discussion is no longer about volvo's.
 
  #30  
Old 02-15-2017, 12:09 PM
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I don't think anyone is withholding information.

According to Volvo, all white blocks are interference engines. So with that, yes, everyone is going to say there is valve damage because that is what an interference engine is. If you call a Volvo service advisor, that is the answer you are going to get.

I'm not trying to argue. I just know everyone likes to search the internet until they find an answer they like. And then they take that as gospel without knowing what they are talking about. So I'm trying to give some perspective here.
 
  #31  
Old 02-15-2017, 12:39 PM
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@ES6T:

Thinking back on it, when I presented the problem to the volvo service station if they had said: "We will scope the engine, see if there's damage, and go from there" ...the car would have been in their lot that eve.

Instead I got: "...definitely bent valves, replace engine for $5k". "No way to diagnose until belt is back on and we do a compression test". Turns out the dealer (who said he had 25yrs experience and was a technician himself) was wrong. If he had been more knowledgeable or willing to diagnose wrecked valves, he would have made the $$$. So I'm thinking it might actually help the techs and the customers to understand that broken belts don't mean belt valves every time.
 
  #32  
Old 02-15-2017, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Jared A Brandt View Post
@ES6T:
broken belts don't mean belt valves every time.
Apparently not on the 4 cylinders. So apparently, if someone Google's this in the future and has an old S/V40, you have a chance.

But on the 5 and 6 cylinders, it does. I've scoped dozens. I've had them be just about 3 teeth off because of debris or an accessory belt getting caught in the timing and bend every single valve. I'm not an engineer, but perhaps the additional cylinder or two doesn't leave room for it to stop without smashing valves.
 
  #33  
Old 02-15-2017, 12:57 PM
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Sure...each engine could have different valve-piston clearance. Most manufacturers are moving to less clearance with newer engines, as this makes detonation more efficient in most engines...so it makes sense that the newer engines probably have a greater chance of bent valves. And yeh, I don't know what kind of trickery volvo does with the cam & valves to get the 5 cylinders to run smoother, but it could complicate valve clearance and timing.
 
  #34  
Old 05-11-2018, 05:59 PM
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I am just now changing my timing belt with 150k miles on it. The biggest reason was because of an oil leak from the cam seals getting on the timing belt.

Even after finding the leak, I didn't find the time to change the timing belt for a few more months, and the timing belt was in far better shape than I thought it would be once I took it off.
 
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