Impossible to track after new lower control arms / wishbones
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Impossible to track after new lower control arms / wishbones
Hi
I have looked for others experiencing the same problem as me but as we all know there are a lot of posts about switching out lower control arms but I have not seen any posts where the car is impossible to track afterwards.
The scenario is that I followed advice to do the simplist switch out of the control arms but fell into the CV joint separation trap because a previous tech has bonded my outer CV splines into the bearing hub and one pull too hard popped the gaiter off and... we all know what is involved there.
The issue:
After fitting two new (not matching brand) lower control arms, the wheel alignment according to the guys at the garage is not possibe since there is no spare thread left in the track rod ends to accommodate adjustment inwards (of rod ends)
Facts:
I did have to replace one track rod end due to seized nut, and wound it a matching number of turns and measured the distance from the steering rack to the ball joint and it matched to the nearest 1-2mm from before removal.
Because I ended up removing the (long) axle to rebuild CV joint the camber/caster will be out as I was not clever enough to mark them - this is true both sides but the garage tell me that would not affect the tracking adjustment.
The lower control arms are not a matching pair (is this a terrible idea if they are supposed to be factory dimensions?) 1 Moog 1x Starline (eurocarparts)
After intstall, but before tracking the steering was wildly off centre (approx 30degrees) but the car drove straight. It definitely felt different - in part because the wishbones were new and stable but it was clearly not perfact and pulled sideways on hard acceleration.
I am fairly well versed in pulling off things like calipers, discs/rotors but never done this task before so confused as to where I may have gone wrong. I will obviously try to investigate but I am not sure where to start without taking it all apart again and since it was a pain to do I am hoping for some tips first.
All suggestions appreciated.
thanks
Gabriel
I have looked for others experiencing the same problem as me but as we all know there are a lot of posts about switching out lower control arms but I have not seen any posts where the car is impossible to track afterwards.
The scenario is that I followed advice to do the simplist switch out of the control arms but fell into the CV joint separation trap because a previous tech has bonded my outer CV splines into the bearing hub and one pull too hard popped the gaiter off and... we all know what is involved there.
The issue:
After fitting two new (not matching brand) lower control arms, the wheel alignment according to the guys at the garage is not possibe since there is no spare thread left in the track rod ends to accommodate adjustment inwards (of rod ends)
Facts:
I did have to replace one track rod end due to seized nut, and wound it a matching number of turns and measured the distance from the steering rack to the ball joint and it matched to the nearest 1-2mm from before removal.
Because I ended up removing the (long) axle to rebuild CV joint the camber/caster will be out as I was not clever enough to mark them - this is true both sides but the garage tell me that would not affect the tracking adjustment.
The lower control arms are not a matching pair (is this a terrible idea if they are supposed to be factory dimensions?) 1 Moog 1x Starline (eurocarparts)
After intstall, but before tracking the steering was wildly off centre (approx 30degrees) but the car drove straight. It definitely felt different - in part because the wishbones were new and stable but it was clearly not perfact and pulled sideways on hard acceleration.
I am fairly well versed in pulling off things like calipers, discs/rotors but never done this task before so confused as to where I may have gone wrong. I will obviously try to investigate but I am not sure where to start without taking it all apart again and since it was a pain to do I am hoping for some tips first.
All suggestions appreciated.
thanks
Gabriel
Junior Member
Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 21
Likes: 2
From: Upstate SC
Hello Gabriel, I'm relatively new here as well. A few questions in order to better understand the problem:
1. What do you mean by "tracking"? Adjusting the front toe?
2. Was rear alignment done and/or verified to specs?
3. What exactly is the car doing wrong now? Pulling consistently to one side only? Pulling randomly left and right? Pulling to one side or the other only under hard acceleration and otherwise driving straight? Not returning well to center?
4. You mention that the garage said wheel alignment is not possible. So, is the car now aligned to specs or not (while exhibiting the problem per #3)?
5. I assume both arms came with new bushings in them? (different manufacturer bushings may differ in stiffness)
6. Why did you buy 2 different brands LH and RH? Are you sure both arms are for same model V70 (for instance not one being for R)? Did you compare their dimensions?
7. What is the year and exact model of your Volvo?
Cheers,
-Yoram
1. What do you mean by "tracking"? Adjusting the front toe?
2. Was rear alignment done and/or verified to specs?
3. What exactly is the car doing wrong now? Pulling consistently to one side only? Pulling randomly left and right? Pulling to one side or the other only under hard acceleration and otherwise driving straight? Not returning well to center?
4. You mention that the garage said wheel alignment is not possible. So, is the car now aligned to specs or not (while exhibiting the problem per #3)?
5. I assume both arms came with new bushings in them? (different manufacturer bushings may differ in stiffness)
6. Why did you buy 2 different brands LH and RH? Are you sure both arms are for same model V70 (for instance not one being for R)? Did you compare their dimensions?
7. What is the year and exact model of your Volvo?
Cheers,
-Yoram
Last edited by Yoram; Jan 12, 2021 at 10:38 AM. Reason: corrected line item number error
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Hi Yoram, thanks for taking the trouble to respond, I was pretty desperate and had no idea where to go after being told by what I thought was a competent national chain that it was not possible to track/set front wheel alignment. It was supposedly toed-in and there was not thread left on the rack to toe back out. Drove in a straight line, but very twitchy and unpredictable steering response under load. Not really surprising.
Turns out an error on my part and I think worse, on the part of the garage who didn't notice and said there was no fault or remedy - because after taking it to an old-school guy it was resoved pretty quickly.
I won't bore you with too much detail but I think I had somehow either failed to tighten or mis-aligned the track rod ball joint, obviously throwing off the tracking. But when the second professional mechanic looked he disovered that the opposite track rod was virtually seized and had not even been touched in the original supposed attempt to sort the alignment. Nor had they noticed my error but perhaps it was not obvious. Took mechanic no.2 about 30 seconds to discover it, and the siezed end and less than an hour to undo, reset it all and set it correctly.
I would probably have discovered both issues had I pulled the wheels off myself, but if you trust a well known branded garage for their opinion you don't instictively ignore it, So thought best to seek further advice and am back on the road.
Again many thaks for your response to my silly mistake.
Turns out an error on my part and I think worse, on the part of the garage who didn't notice and said there was no fault or remedy - because after taking it to an old-school guy it was resoved pretty quickly.
I won't bore you with too much detail but I think I had somehow either failed to tighten or mis-aligned the track rod ball joint, obviously throwing off the tracking. But when the second professional mechanic looked he disovered that the opposite track rod was virtually seized and had not even been touched in the original supposed attempt to sort the alignment. Nor had they noticed my error but perhaps it was not obvious. Took mechanic no.2 about 30 seconds to discover it, and the siezed end and less than an hour to undo, reset it all and set it correctly.
I would probably have discovered both issues had I pulled the wheels off myself, but if you trust a well known branded garage for their opinion you don't instictively ignore it, So thought best to seek further advice and am back on the road.
Again many thaks for your response to my silly mistake.
Junior Member
Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 21
Likes: 2
From: Upstate SC
Hi Yoram, thanks for taking the trouble to respond, I was pretty desperate and had no idea where to go after being told by what I thought was a competent national chain that it was not possible to track/set front wheel alignment. It was supposedly toed-in and there was not thread left on the rack to toe back out. Drove in a straight line, but very twitchy and unpredictable steering response under load. Not really surprising.
Turns out an error on my part and I think worse, on the part of the garage who didn't notice and said there was no fault or remedy - because after taking it to an old-school guy it was resoved pretty quickly.
I won't bore you with too much detail but I think I had somehow either failed to tighten or mis-aligned the track rod ball joint, obviously throwing off the tracking. But when the second professional mechanic looked he disovered that the opposite track rod was virtually seized and had not even been touched in the original supposed attempt to sort the alignment. Nor had they noticed my error but perhaps it was not obvious. Took mechanic no.2 about 30 seconds to discover it, and the siezed end and less than an hour to undo, reset it all and set it correctly.
I would probably have discovered both issues had I pulled the wheels off myself, but if you trust a well known branded garage for their opinion you don't instictively ignore it, So thought best to seek further advice and am back on the road.
Again many thaks for your response to my silly mistake.
Turns out an error on my part and I think worse, on the part of the garage who didn't notice and said there was no fault or remedy - because after taking it to an old-school guy it was resoved pretty quickly.
I won't bore you with too much detail but I think I had somehow either failed to tighten or mis-aligned the track rod ball joint, obviously throwing off the tracking. But when the second professional mechanic looked he disovered that the opposite track rod was virtually seized and had not even been touched in the original supposed attempt to sort the alignment. Nor had they noticed my error but perhaps it was not obvious. Took mechanic no.2 about 30 seconds to discover it, and the siezed end and less than an hour to undo, reset it all and set it correctly.
I would probably have discovered both issues had I pulled the wheels off myself, but if you trust a well known branded garage for their opinion you don't instictively ignore it, So thought best to seek further advice and am back on the road.
Again many thaks for your response to my silly mistake.
Glad it's all sorted out for you. I do not trust any of the garage chains and most dealerships. The only automotive service chain I trust is Discount Tire (I'm in the US; no relationship or interest, just a repeat satisfied customer for decades).
Are you in the States?
Cheers.
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 773
Likes: 8
From: Hackensack
It's confusing to me too. I believe the "track rod ball joint" gabrielh19 referred to is the outer tie rod end.
This'd be far from the first time a fastener wasn't done up adequately during reassembly. These are the lessons we don't forget.
Click on anyone's name in the heading to see their posted public profile. gabrielh19 is from GB...Great Barrington, Massachusetts, obviously.
This'd be far from the first time a fastener wasn't done up adequately during reassembly. These are the lessons we don't forget.
Click on anyone's name in the heading to see their posted public profile. gabrielh19 is from GB...Great Barrington, Massachusetts, obviously.
Junior Member
Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 21
Likes: 2
From: Upstate SC
It's confusing to me too. I believe the "track rod ball joint" gabrielh19 referred to is the outer tie rod end.
This'd be far from the first time a fastener wasn't done up adequately during reassembly. These are the lessons we don't forget.
Click on anyone's name in the heading to see their posted public profile. gabrielh19 is from GB...Great Barrington, Massachusetts, obviously.
This'd be far from the first time a fastener wasn't done up adequately during reassembly. These are the lessons we don't forget.
Click on anyone's name in the heading to see their posted public profile. gabrielh19 is from GB...Great Barrington, Massachusetts, obviously.
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Joined: May 2015
Posts: 45
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Cannot track V70
I also have an ongoing fronr tracking problem on myb 2006 V70 D5. There is no adjustment left to correct excessive toe-in, no visible thread left on inner tie bar. It has been like this for two years - ever since I have had the car.
I have checked all the above - but would have noticed after driveing 20,000 miles.
Is it possible someone has fitted the wrong track rod ends or inner tie bars?
Any suggestions anyone? Thanks
I have checked all the above - but would have noticed after driveing 20,000 miles.
Is it possible someone has fitted the wrong track rod ends or inner tie bars?
Any suggestions anyone? Thanks
Super Moderator
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 9,601
Likes: 540
From: Burlington, VT
mpe - have you been to more than one shop to investigate? It is possible that after market parts were fitted but without a history file you'd have to guess and inspect to see what parts don't look original. It is also possible you may have a bent part due to a severe pot-hole hit.
As the OP noted, not all alignment shops have experience in sussing out suspension issues. You'd think with modern alignment equipment they'd get it right but I've had to bring back a car more than once. Now I always ask for the print out (tell them you want it before they start) to see the before/after settings
As the OP noted, not all alignment shops have experience in sussing out suspension issues. You'd think with modern alignment equipment they'd get it right but I've had to bring back a car more than once. Now I always ask for the print out (tell them you want it before they start) to see the before/after settings
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Joined: May 2015
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Thanks for your reply, I am in the process of replacing the inner and out track rods as I write. I've got one side off after a struggle and cutting through the tie rod because it was NEVER going to unscrew.
I now realise I've been "ripped off" over the last few years by a tyre centre that claimed they were adjusting the tracking - even giving me a printout of 'before & after'.
I finally got my local 'honest' garage to check the tracking when the problem was found seized solid.
I have bought the 'correct' inner and outer tie rods from GSF and these appear to be identical in length to the ones I have just taken off.
I understand that the V70's (mine is 2006) have had different length rods, my inners are 150mm long.
Can anyone tell me what sizes are available? I have found some outer's described as 133mm & others 150mm.
I suspect there may have been a new rack fitted at some time, all suppliers have offered the same rods as being the ones for my car, so I can't think of any other explanation. I think that when I have it all back together nothing would have changed - apart from not being seized.
I now realise I've been "ripped off" over the last few years by a tyre centre that claimed they were adjusting the tracking - even giving me a printout of 'before & after'.
I finally got my local 'honest' garage to check the tracking when the problem was found seized solid.
I have bought the 'correct' inner and outer tie rods from GSF and these appear to be identical in length to the ones I have just taken off.
I understand that the V70's (mine is 2006) have had different length rods, my inners are 150mm long.
Can anyone tell me what sizes are available? I have found some outer's described as 133mm & others 150mm.
I suspect there may have been a new rack fitted at some time, all suppliers have offered the same rods as being the ones for my car, so I can't think of any other explanation. I think that when I have it all back together nothing would have changed - apart from not being seized.
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Joined: May 2015
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Can anyone tell me what " AXEL JOINT LENGTH" means on a description of an inner tie rod? i.e. Axle Joint Length [mm]: 125
Is it the total length of the tie rod ?
__________________________________________________ _____
Looks like the AXEL LENGTH is the measurement excluding the 16mm thread that screws into the rack - so a 125 axel length is the same as a 150 overall. It is begining to look as though I will be chopping a bit off the 14mm thread on a 'standard' ineer tie rod !!
Is it the total length of the tie rod ?
__________________________________________________ _____
Looks like the AXEL LENGTH is the measurement excluding the 16mm thread that screws into the rack - so a 125 axel length is the same as a 150 overall. It is begining to look as though I will be chopping a bit off the 14mm thread on a 'standard' ineer tie rod !!
Last edited by mpe; Mar 30, 2023 at 04:56 AM.
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Tracking i8mpossible
I had the same problem with my 2006 V70 D5. Ii appeared the track control arms were too long and could not be screwed in far enough. I found there are different length rods from different manufactures all claiming the be for my VIN number. These varied between 125cm and 145 cm, (I think Meile were the shortest.
Another option would have been to chop a little off the trhread of the exising ones. National Tyere and QUICK FIT (don't know WHY I ever went there !) charged me for several alignments over the years but never made any difference to tyre wear - I KNOW WHY NOW
Another option would have been to chop a little off the trhread of the exising ones. National Tyere and QUICK FIT (don't know WHY I ever went there !) charged me for several alignments over the years but never made any difference to tyre wear - I KNOW WHY NOW
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