cold start problems...let's give this one a happy ending!

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Old 11-21-2010, 12:56 PM
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Default cold start problems...let's give this one a happy ending!

i've searched this forum for every cold start thread, but there are many fix suggestions, but no follow ups. i vow to take this one to the end (or junk the car).

here's the issue.

it's been getting cold lately, near zero celsius in the morning. my 1990 240 for the past few days has been very difficult to start, requiring long and multiple cranking sessions. when it does start, it wants to die right away if i don't give it quite a bit of throttle. it performs very poorly until it warms up.
today is even colder (below zero) and it will not start no matter how hard i try, nd the battery is beginning to get weak.

in my research, here are possibilities i've come across

1) leaky injectors
2) bad air mass meter
3) bad iac
4) bad fuel regulator
5) bad cold start valve/injector
6) bad temp sensor

can someone help me narrow this down or create a priority sequence of troubleshooting. it's only going to get colder here.

thanks

david
 
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Old 11-22-2010, 02:24 AM
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It's probably your idle air system with a slight possibility of coolant temp sensor.
Leaky injectors will make a cold start easier and won't affect running for more than about 10 seconds.
Lack of cold start injector will make a cold start difficult but it will run fine once started.
It's not AMM as the car runs fine once warmed up.
You should strive to understand how each particular sub system of the fuel injection works and when it works. This way, you can narrow down what is working or has input into running the car at the time the problems arise.
As it is, I think your car isn't getting enough air when idling cold due to the idle air system being stuck closed or blocked. If it was stuck open, you'd have a fast idle hot.
This sort of thing is very common coming into winter months, the idle air control gums up but not enough for it to be an issue when hot, as the valve only moves a smaller amount when the weather is warmer. As it cools, the engine needs more air on a cold start and the valve jams or runs out of travel due to deposits, r the deposits restrict teh amount of actual air that can flow.

Regards, Andrew.
 
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Old 11-22-2010, 08:49 AM
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Have you tried putting a bit of gas or ether in the intake when cold and before trying to start 1st time? If it fires quickly then dies (or almost does), then you'll know it's not getting enough gas or it's getting too much air, due to a too lean situation (with a carb'd engine you would pump the accelerator to overcome same thing from a faulty choke). That would bring the possibles down to the cold start injector or the idle air control (and their electrical connections) as main suspects, with somewhat fainter possibilities of a bad fuel pressure regulator, weak fuel pump or very clogged fuel filter (all 3 of which I've seen in various cars -one a Volvo- as puzzlers). A fuel pressure tester will help ID any of these last 3. I agree the coolant temp sensor should be looked at in conjunction with the cold start injector. It helps if you've got a manual to assist these diags.

If no results, and you aren't smelling gas from being too rich, then look at the ignition. Do you have spark at the coil? Do you also see it hot at the plugs? (An old plug attached to any plug wire and set on the valve cover saves you pulling a plug in use). Is it all to spec and plugs clean and gapped? Are the plug wires spec? Is timing OK? Is the distributor pickup (or points gap, for those with an older model) OK? We hope the coil lead, ground and computer connections are good and shiny. (Fairly fresh oil of right weight for temps also not bad to think about either.) All of these should be right for a decent low temp start.
 
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Old 11-22-2010, 03:09 PM
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well, it looks like i might have been barking up the wrong tree a bit. i was tooling around last night and found that sometimes i was getting spark, sometimes not. i just replaced my rotor arm and distributor cap, and decided it was time for a new battery.
the car started right up, but clearly now the timing is not correct. is there a down and dirty way to get good timing, or do i need to follow the manual's procedure? most of my mechanical experience is on motorbikes, so i'm a bit iffy on this. i know i have the leads hooked up correctly.
 
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Old 11-25-2010, 04:50 PM
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Did you replace the rotor and cap to fix the intermittent spark successfully? If not, I'd really check that coil out and clean it's leads. Plugs, wires and chassis grounds next, followed by distributor pickup (it might just be loose or miss adjusted).

Timing:
Best way: use the procedure in the manual (hope you have one by now) with a timing light. Down and dirty? I assume you don't have a vacuum gauge. OK: Assuming your plugs and wires are confirmed good, warm engine and shut off. Clean distributor housing where it interfaces with engine and locate hold down bolts/screws. Mark current location of the distributor body vs the engine with a sharp metal object. Now loosen the distributor bolt/screws a turn and move distributor an inch each way to make sure it's free enough for adjustment. Match the marks you made and retighten hold down. Start engine. loosen and move distributor a 1/4" one direction. Does engine improve? (usually higher RPM) Yes, it's likely the right way. Try 1/2" inch (3/4" at most!). Tighten hold down when you seem to have a good spot. Drive around the block to confirm improvement. Esp listen for detonation. Stop and fine adjust as necessary. That should put you within 5-6 degrees.

See how it cold starts after long sit. Move closer to old marks if difficult. Keep tools in car in case something happens. The old setting can always be found by matching the scratch marks. When you think you've really got a good timing point, scratch a second mark. Get it to a real timing light sometime soon to confirm. If it's still not running good after timing and plugs and wires are good, output of coil or clean connections and grounds are next to check. Suspect the distributor pickup if OK. Still trouble? Vacuum gauge check and/or Compression test!
 

Last edited by jopower; 11-25-2010 at 05:33 PM.
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Old 11-26-2010, 05:56 AM
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thanks for all those suggestions.

as far as my research has told me, the '90 240 sets it's own timing with the control unit and the crank position sensor. that said, i haven't had time and spare hands to check if the spark is now consistent. the car is starting just fine now, but won't stay running long on idle before it cuts out. i'm not sure if i've solved one problem and created another, or simply transformed the original problems.

i will have a chance to do some diagnosing over the weekend and will report my findings. i will check my grounds then, as i have had a go at cleaning all the other electrical contacts for the ignition. the car has an appointment monday with the local volvo guru just in case. it's no kind of weather here to be in the driveway working on the car!
 
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Old 01-17-2011, 12:19 PM
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>>i've searched this forum for every cold start thread, but
>>there are many fix suggestions, but no follow ups. i vow
>>to take this one to the end (or junk the car).

Should we all assume you "junked" the car or is the problem solved?

Perhaps "junked" is the happy ending?

If solved I would think given your opening statement that you should feel a bit obligated to have a "final summary" post.
 
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Old 01-18-2011, 02:17 PM
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i do feel obliged!!!

problem is that there is never a solved with this beast...

to say that i found the problem and corrected it is too simple. i transformed the problem constantly until the car started better. here's what i did.

1) i replaced the battery.
2) i cleaned all the electrical connections and terminals i could see
3) i replaced the plugs with bosch platinum
4) the volvo specialist informed me that bosch platinums flood and don't clear themselves on these cars, so...
5) i replaced the spark plugs again
6) i replaced the exhaust manifold

all this led the car to start fine, so my guess is that the leak in the manifold was so bad in cold weather that it wouldn't started. it always had a small leak, but it got bigger over time and i didn't really notice it, and when the car wouldn't start, obviously i couldn't see that the leak was really bad.

i would have reported all this, but i just changed the timing belt (it broke) after which, of course, the water pump seized. so, i've been busy.

thanks for keeping on top of me!
 
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Old 01-19-2011, 11:13 AM
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I am confused by the actions you've taken. The only action that I would say has a connection to your hard cold start problem is the exhaust manifold however I doubt that would have anything to do with a cold start problem. I suspect that there were intake manifold vacuum issues that you may have solved in the process of performing other tasks.

I have a hard cold start issue that appears to be either a vacuum issue (there is a drive-ability issue as well that occurs below 2k rpm) or it could be the cold start injector or ???

I hate to shotgun this and blindly replace the cold start injector in that it's over $200.00 for the part.

Don
 
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Old 01-31-2011, 02:48 AM
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Did we ever figure this one out?
 
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Old 01-31-2011, 07:20 AM
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Originally Posted by davesee1
i do feel obliged!!!

problem is that there is never a solved with this beast...

to say that i found the problem and corrected it is too simple. i transformed the problem constantly until the car started better. here's what i did.

1) i replaced the battery.
2) i cleaned all the electrical connections and terminals i could see
3) i replaced the plugs with bosch platinum
4) the volvo specialist informed me that bosch platinums flood and don't clear themselves on these cars, so...
5) i replaced the spark plugs again
6) i replaced the exhaust manifold

all this led the car to start fine, so my guess is that the leak in the manifold was so bad in cold weather that it wouldn't started. it always had a small leak, but it got bigger over time and i didn't really notice it, and when the car wouldn't start, obviously i couldn't see that the leak was really bad.

i would have reported all this, but i just changed the timing belt (it broke) after which, of course, the water pump seized. so, i've been busy.

thanks for keeping on top of me!

Do we assume that you check/verified that both fuel pumps are working and you replaced the fuel filter. Also have you checked and or replaced the fuel pump relay along with the injector relay. If you have spark then you need fuel pressure. Keep us posted.
 
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