RED block peeps I have a question.....

  #1  
Old 04-27-2019, 07:05 AM
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Default RED block peeps I have a question.....

I love one offs. I bought my 86 245 wagon to put a V8 and a 5/6 speed. But the LS isnt a one off lately. Lets say I build the red block up, how much boost do you think I can give the block and have it handle it reliably?

I think I can make a 4BBL intake etc.. unless there is a site that offers that that I havent seen..

Thanks!!!
 
  #2  
Old 04-27-2019, 11:38 AM
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is the question how much boost can the stock short block handle or how much boost can you produce with reasonable reliability? A more practical analysis would be to say for xx budget, how much HP can I get or set a target HP goal (say what do you need to do to get 250 HP at the wheels from a red block). There's been some pretty spectacular white block builds (talking 400+ HP with some sizeable turbos) with rods and pistons added in for strenth - so that talks to the point about having a budget in mind.
 
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Old 04-28-2019, 05:08 AM
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the more power you output, the more stuff will break and need repairing/upgrading.

above 250HP things really start to go squirrelly. 250 is emminently doable with a properly setup turbo on a B230.

you'll find a lot more help on that kinda stuff on the turbobricks forum.

btw, 4bbl? wtf, stick with fuel injection, way more efficient and programmable.

and it ends up all being about money. how much suspension,braking can you afford? going fast without being able to stop fast or control the speed? ugh.
 
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Old 04-28-2019, 07:01 AM
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HP is more budget related . The more money you have the higher the HP. As a for instance look at the F1 V6 engine of 1.6 L . It puts out about 850 HP so it's all a matter of $'s. As for 4 cyl. engines for the right price you can get 300 HP which some mfg's offer already. Start doing some homework but if you can't afford to put in a used V8 my bet is you can't afford to build a high HP 4 . As for a carb. engine there is no flexibility to tune to the HP you get with an FI engine. Good luck.
 
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Old 04-28-2019, 02:01 PM
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another factor, imho a BIG one, is driveability.... pushing a lot of peak HP out of motor tends to produce a car that's not much fun to drive in normal traffic.
 
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Old 04-28-2019, 11:12 PM
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so from a practical perspective, lets assume you transplant from a 740T donor and tune to 15-17 PSI boost, that will probably get into the 250 HP range. To compare, the 850 Turbo runs 10-12 PSI boost and offers about 220 HP that can run on regular gas. Anything higher and it gets complicated.
 
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Old 04-29-2019, 12:38 AM
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i had a 1996 850 Turbo wagon and it definitely did not like regular gas, would ping like crazy then retard and lose a lot of power in hot weather if you got heavy on the pedal.

the owners manual and the gas cap both said use premium gas in the turbo.

the later low pressure turbos were more lenient, but they also weren't 220HP
 
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Old 04-29-2019, 08:17 AM
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must have been your west coast gas. my 95 850T on the east coast ran fine on 87 To your point, if you build a turbo beyond stock boost (ie 8 to 10 PSI) premium will be a must as would combustion temp management - ie intercooler, water injector, bigger radiator, ECU tuned for fuel enrichment. Not as complicated as a small block with TBI.
 
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Old 04-29-2019, 10:43 AM
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250... I guess Ill stick to the V8 swap. I am looking at a 500HP level boosted. The car weighs 4300 lbs. Gonna need a bunch of power to move this brick.

Yeah, my 67 Tempest makes around 505 HP and the cam profile is such that it has horrible traffic manners. Car really like to be above 1800-2000 rpm's. That cars sweet spot is 60-100 mph accelerations. Weighs close to 4000lbs..
 
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Old 04-29-2019, 11:31 AM
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so you're going to basically replace the ENTIRE drive train and suspension ?

500HP will rip the rear end out of a 240
 
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Old 04-29-2019, 11:33 AM
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btw, a 240 weighs about 2800 lbs curb weight. add up to 1200 lbs payload, and you're still under 4000 lbs.
 
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Old 04-29-2019, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by pierce View Post
so you're going to basically replace the ENTIRE drive train and suspension ?

500HP will rip the rear end out of a 240
That was the plan. My first iteration was LS 5.3 boosted to T56 trans with Ford 8.8. Which is still the likely front runner. I might send the dimensions of the rear Dana axle to Quick performance and have them duplicate the mounts to use Volvo suspension, but aftermarket stuff.

I was thinking of QA1 or Ridetech. What ever I can massage into the thing. I would like this to be a fast sleeper type of car. Plus I love the wagon and it is a 3rd row seater.

I must have read that wrong. I thought I saw 4000+ on the net. Maybe I saw GVWR and not curb weight.

I might drive the car around with its stock guts as the PO had done quite a bit of part replacements, but never got the car to start. Runs and idles nice. Even moves under his own power. The clutch was frozen, but after starting it in gear, it broke loose.
 
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Old 04-30-2019, 07:36 PM
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yeah your Volvo weighs about the same as a 68 Camaro... So if you want to build a resto-mod, how about an LS3 with an after market IRS kit.


bookmark these sites: https://jagsthatrun.com/products/vol...r-mounting-kit

https://www.heidts.com/kits/

https://www.chevrolet.com/performance/crate-engines/ls3

lets see, you'll be adding 300-400 Lbs so the car will weigh in at about 3200 lbs w/o driver with 430+ HP. That should be good for 12's
 
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Old 05-01-2019, 03:39 AM
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sure, $10000+ for that IRS kit
 
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Old 05-01-2019, 08:59 AM
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yep and a crate engine will run $7000+ transmission - but the car would be badass! The budget approach would be to go to a yard and measure up a 9 bolt rear end and fab your own mounts/springs etc.
 
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Old 05-01-2019, 01:46 PM
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Yeah, since ill be doing all the work, it should be a lot cheaper. I plan on starting a build thread once I start.
 
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Old 05-01-2019, 02:47 PM
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those were the parts prices, not the labor to install. I doubt the stock mount points on the unibody for the trailing arms, thrust bars, panhard rod, spring towers, etc are anywheres close to adequate for 500 HP, as the car chassis was designed around at most a 160 HP turbo, so most likely you'll need to gut the rear chassis, and build a tubular rear subframe and somehow secure the body onto it. maybe you should plan on fabricating a full frame, and just drop the Volvo skin over it.
 
  #18  
Old 05-01-2019, 03:32 PM
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Nah. Engine are cheap. Buying them turn key, Ill agree START at 7K. But not if I'm having the bottom end done and finishing it on me own. T56 or Tremec Magnum is 3k all day. Used they still are 1800$+!!!!

Yeah Ill have to dig around on the body to see where the weak stress points are. Plenty of unibody Novas out there at 500HP with zero fox given to rear end structure. Although most of the cars I have had lately since I have some coin have been full frame cars..

Now if I could fix the brakes in the Tempest, I could drive it!!!
 
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