i know the final setting is 130 deg but what is the final turn going to result in foot pounds of torque can someone help me to figure this out-- thanks
-- by the way if anyone buys the angle guage get a good quality metal one not cheep *** plastic - i got bit by that now i have to remove all head bolts and buy new ones - expensive mistake - but we learn from mistakes -- right?? maybe maybe not im sooooo pissed about this i wanna take the guage back where i bought it and stick it up where the sun dont shine

 

I must have missed something. Remember this

Originally Posted by Bobec
This is what happen to me. torqued everything in sequence to stage 2. No problem

Started with the cheap torque angle indicator. needle didn't move threw it in the trash.

put the breaker bar on the bolt and pulled it up to the head so socket was engaging the head. used a steel adjustable protractor (bought at HD) to make a mark with a sharpy on the head where 130 deg. was. Pulled until the bar was at the mark. repeated for next 3

The problem after the first 4, number 5 pulled to 130 with very little effort (why I have no idea). No good no way the gasket would last with out the bolt under more tension. moved the breaker bar back and pulled again for three creaks of the bolt just like the first 4 and the force was just about the same. Had to use this process on the rest of them.

In retrospect I probably should have torqued the lose ones to stage 2 again and gone from there.

This morning the tach was in the red(not by choice, just looked down and there it was at about 6200rpm didn't know this was possible, thought the tranny would shift first ) and so far everythings running perfect.

So I'd just tighten it to close to the same force as the others. Mine creaked like creak, creak, creak and that was about the same for all.



The bolts are pobably not even under enough tension to care. back them out(hopefully you oiled the threads before you started. 95 ft lbs dosn't seem like enough from my experience. 130 deg. requires some "big" time pulling action( I used a breaker bar because I knew it wasn't going to be easy and it wasn't). Removing them required just about every single ounce I had. I'm use to torquing bolt after bolt of copper bus connections at 75ft lbs and 95 is just not that far away. 130 deg. needs alot more.

My advise go to stage 2. use the protractor and mark the angle on the head and pull. Like I said creak, creak, creak. Don't forget to oil the head of the bolts too, read the instructions in the head gasket wrapper. It really amazed me that after oiling the threads and the heads of the bolt that I still had that bolt screaming for mercy.

Good luck, we're here for you.

 

thanks bobec -- so i pull em and start again?
yeah boy hidey - crap - oh well class is beginning again hey its the only way to learn - right make a mistake and fix it

 

did you already start the 130° pull?
After you start with the center bolt with the 130° turn, you could check what the torque setting is on that bolt, then use that setting for the other bolts? just an idea...

Just checking:
Stage 1. 20 Nm
Stage 2. 60 Nm
Stage 3. 130°
You torqued each stage from center to ends?

When we did the 740, we just used a protractor with long ends and lined up with the break bar. We also used a metal pipe for more leverage.

 

Perfect, (chase every hole with an oily threaded bolt befor you start, and oil the threads and heads of the new bolts first)

You see protractor, metal pipe, breaker bar and pull to the angle.

Just as a side line, this guy I work with said this motor is based on a German motor that he used to use in race cars. They use to put the block in an oven for like 12 hours to heat it before the put the head on and toqued the head bolts.

 

I just thought about this and the problem is (and this is probably why they use angle instead instead of torque.) In between those creak, creak creak's is between 5 and 10 degress. It is not smooth, it just creaks and indexes, With a torque wrench you could hit the wall just before the creak and stop(it's alot of force), but this is not tight enough! you have to hit the next wall, and the next until you hit 130deg.

 

I've read in other posts to not oil the bolts since the oil would affect the clamping pressure of the bolt.

What type of oil are you using? Machine oil, motor oil?

 

I used light synthetic oil. Haynes says to lightly oil the threads and the instructions with the head gasket said to oil the threads and the heads.

 

well i think ive done it finally - woot - thanks for the advice everyone - it would have proved to be a very expensive mistake had i not fixed the problem with torque bolts - yes i did forget to oil them first - but this time i did and they barely made any noise as i torqued them down - at least till i got to the 115 deg mark then they kinda jumped to 130 but its all done and i dont think i want to mess with it any more - as soon as i get a replacement camera i will post more i dropped mine in the bucket of cleaning solution i was cleaning all the parts with - i was - and still am highly pissed off about that - ohh well i need a car more than a camera- so far - head gasket - thermostat & gasket- turbo seals- pipes all sealed with new copper seals- connected new turbo oil down pipes- seal-new valve seals -new lifters (tappets)-front and rear oil seals on intake and exhaust cams- pcv (complete with all lines-old one was completely melted)(cant find intake cam dust boot though ) ive looked everywhere-new sensors (all) and and assort ment of other little things that add up to making the car run --THANKS TO EVERYONE FOR ADVICE !! i may need more advice if she doesn't start -need to prime fuel rail first- ill call my neighbor to come turn the ignition for a few sec while i depress the fuel rail vent- that ought to do it- see you all on Monday - ill let you know then if it was go or no go

 

good time to rplace all those things blocked by the intake and exhaust manifolds.

Good luck!

 

a note to those who want to know what the actual torque is on the bolts when you make that final 130 degree turn: There IS no correct setting. The point of doing it this way is that the bolts need to be tightened to their "yield" point- the point where they begin to stretch, but just barely short of the point where they stretch permanently, or "yield." This allows the bolt to reach its absolute maximum clamping force. However, there's a lot of variables affecting torque once you get above a certain amount of torque- things like internal friction, slight variances in height, small dirt particles- this is why you HAVE to use the angle gauge or protractor- there's no way around it, no simple magic final torque number you can use to find the bolt's yield point.

As for oiling the threads, this engine is REALLY strange in that it requires the threads to be oiled. On most other engines, the repair procedure actually WARNS you NOT to use any oil. On this particular one, it's required! Motor oil will do fine. The point of the oil is to prevent damage to the threads in the aluminum, as well as reduce friction to ensure a more accurate final torque.