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Throttle Body Replaced - No Software!

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Throttle Body Replaced - No Software!

  #1  
Old 08-29-2010, 06:27 AM
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Thumbs up Throttle Body Replaced - No Software!

Hi Everyone,

I have just bought a 2000 V70 2.4 non turbo, the poor old boy who owned it before me spent a mint trying to fix the ETM, Got the car on friday and it drives well untill it's up to temprature - then the ETS light comes on and it's in limp mode,
The previous owner has replaced :-
ETM shiny new volvo one with a bright yellow sticker !
Throttle pedal
MAF Sensor (again from volvo)
O2 sensor
BUT aparantly the indipendant garage that did the work could not load the ETM software.... (said it would'nt accept it ???)

No codes listed when in fault condition - but i did get a p16** (comms fault) but cant get it to re-appear
I'm hoping that it just needs the new etm paired - in that case i've got a real bargin!!
When it's in fault condition it idle's really bad (like a missfire) - idle is around 1k, dosn't stall but wont rev past 3k & when you press the throttle it revs slow (smooth's out at 2k) then drops to 1500 & bounces back up to 2k and back to rough idle....

It's booked in with my local dealer on thursday for the software.... But....

1. How come it drives fine when cold?
2. ETS light comes on - but no codes
3. what are the symptoms of not loading the software on a new ETM ?

Thanks in advance

Steve
 

Last edited by Steve 1564; 08-29-2010 at 06:35 AM. Reason: "I'm stupid"
  #2  
Old 08-29-2010, 08:56 AM
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Default We're waiting for you...

Hello, I'll bet everyone reading this post is waiting to see how your trip to the dealer will work out. I know I am. If I may, 3 guesses in reverse order: 3) The symptoms of not loading software on a new ETM are what you're experiencing. 2) The ETS light comes on because of the communication problem between the "unmarried" ETM and other processers in the car. The p16** code you found once could easily return. Did your reader provide those asterisks? 1) It drives well cold because the fuel system is running rich upon startup.
Please get back to us. I'm praying your ETM just needs a $30 download-which they give you for free because you're a nice guy. Kira
 
  #3  
Old 08-29-2010, 10:02 AM
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If it is a new Volvo supplied ETM I would think that Volvo would have asked what firmware needed to be loaded. I think the yellow sticker means it had a firmware revision. If it has the wrong firmware I "think" it would throw a code as soon as you turn the key on and the CANbus communication between the ETM and ECU is established and the car would go right into limp mode.

How old is the battery? After taking one of these apart and looking at it closely I think a low supply voltage can cause the throttle plate servo motor to not develop enough torque to move the plate shaft. Also there are o-rings on the shaft that might get dry and create friction. This might explain why it fails when it gets hot, things expand, friction increases, etc. If you're interested in the insides here are a few pics.

https://volvoforums.com/forum/members/bobec-25604-albums-v70-etm-632/
 
  #4  
Old 08-29-2010, 12:02 PM
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Talking

Cool...

Thanks Kira ...

That's what I wanted to hear, Guess it makes sense - rich when cold, The battery voltage (on the ECU & ETM reads 12.8v - my el'cheapo ELM327 tells me its 12.7 & i did a volt drop test - Im loosing .5v between the ecu & batt - 13.3 (fully loaded) so i dont think it's a supply issue, Just cant wait till thursday -
The code was P16 somthing - (Altzhimers at such a young age.... tragic!) Maybe i should have written it down !!!

Is there any recomended OBD2 software for these ? I have Vol-fcr but it will only read the engine ecu on this one and our V40...

Steve
 

Last edited by Steve 1564; 08-29-2010 at 12:16 PM.
  #5  
Old 08-30-2010, 05:31 AM
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Talking It's the small things that count.....

Well.....

Decided to do a proper volt-drop test today... All good.... checked the voltage to the ETM also good, (but that was checking to batt-ve) metered the plug to the etm (Pins 5&6) 3.2v !!!!! bla-dee blah.... earth connection to the block was almost falling out (they use a sh*tty self tapper ) - Moved the earth to a nearby M8 tap in the block and all is well

I've had a right result !!!

The money i saved i can now spend on frebreeze to try to get rid of the dog smell !
 
  #6  
Old 08-30-2010, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve 1564 View Post
Well.....

Decided to do a proper volt-drop test today... All good.... checked the voltage to the ETM also good, (but that was checking to batt-ve) metered the plug to the etm (Pins 5&6) 3.2v !!!!! bla-dee blah.... earth connection to the block was almost falling out (they use a sh*tty self tapper ) - Moved the earth to a nearby M8 tap in the block and all is well

I've had a right result !!!

The money i saved i can now spend on frebreeze to try to get rid of the dog smell !

With all due respect.... You're welcome.

I mean where did you get the supply voltage idea?

Now If you want to help all Volvo owners escape this F&^%ing witch hunt that is going on on Matthew's site you can make it known that bobec from volvoforums steered you in the right direction.

Don's ETM room is a joke made by people who know S*&t.

The magnetti Marrelli ETM is an engineering master piece and it's getting slammed by a bunch of F*&^ing idiots.
 
  #7  
Old 09-04-2010, 07:51 AM
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Thumbs up Bobec... "He da mannnn! He da MAIN man!"

Bobec...

Thanks Man,
sorry for the late reply (working away)
You did indeed steer me in the right direction - (batt volt drop ect,) mind you even volvo diagnosed it as the ETM, It was only when i measured the volts at the plug (ex tv so usually just connect the fluke neg lead to the battery) that i found the problem, Guess there's some politics regarding the ETM issue, Mines brand new so works well, but i cant really understand why they didnt use contactless pots.. - and yes your right the Magnetti ETM is very well engineered and should last a very long time even with its wiper pots, and let's be honest if you had a bill for a part that cost say 400 after 100k or so would it seem like a big deal ? I mean it cant be much more expensive than a set of tyers or an exhaust
Still cant help felling sorry for the old boy that i bought it off... not sorry enough to give him any more money of course, but i think i'll add him to my christmass card list

Has anyone sourced the potentiometers ? I can see it being a massive job to change them >?
 
  #8  
Old 09-04-2010, 11:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve 1564 View Post
Well.....

Decided to do a proper volt-drop test today... All good.... checked the voltage to the ETM also good, (but that was checking to batt-ve) metered the plug to the etm (Pins 5&6) 3.2v !!!!! bla-dee blah.... earth connection to the block was almost falling out (they use a sh*tty self tapper ) - Moved the earth to a nearby M8 tap in the block and all is well

I've had a right result !!!

The money i saved i can now spend on frebreeze to try to get rid of the dog smell !
For those of us that are not so talented to understand what the batt-ve is, and where and how to check the voltage on pins 5&6, can you provide some more details, perhaps pictures or even a drawing? You could be helping a lot of folks with this one!

Jerry
 
  #9  
Old 09-05-2010, 09:35 AM
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Thanks Steve. I'm happy you didn't have to spend all that money on the ETM stuff when it was something so simple.

Magnetti Marrelli most likely didn't use non contact because the technology wasn't there when they were designing the ETM. Also full contact potentiometers have been used for years, still are, without problem. Both of my 850's and the 98V70 all have around 200K miles and their full contact TPS's are original and still working fine. Here's a pic of the resistive strip with 110k miles.

https://volvoforums.com/forum/album....pictureid=2821

Here is the o-ring that should be lubricated when cleaning, VIDA amazingly says nothing about lubricating these in the cleaning instruction

https://volvoforums.com/forum/album....pictureid=2822

And a close up of the wiper fingers

https://volvoforums.com/forum/album....pictureid=2820

As for the acceptable cost of an ETM replacement after 100k, My answer is why if you don't have to..... just clean, ......Lubricate......, make sure the battery is good, and check your ground.



Originally Posted by Steve 1564 View Post
Bobec...

Thanks Man,
sorry for the late reply (working away)
You did indeed steer me in the right direction - (batt volt drop ect,) mind you even volvo diagnosed it as the ETM, It was only when i measured the volts at the plug (ex tv so usually just connect the fluke neg lead to the battery) that i found the problem, Guess there's some politics regarding the ETM issue, Mines brand new so works well, but i cant really understand why they didnt use contactless pots.. - and yes your right the Magnetti ETM is very well engineered and should last a very long time even with its wiper pots, and let's be honest if you had a bill for a part that cost say 400 after 100k or so would it seem like a big deal ? I mean it cant be much more expensive than a set of tyers or an exhaust
Still cant help felling sorry for the old boy that i bought it off... not sorry enough to give him any more money of course, but i think i'll add him to my christmass card list

Has anyone sourced the potentiometers ? I can see it being a massive job to change them >?
 
  #10  
Old 09-05-2010, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by checksix View Post
For those of us that are not so talented to understand what the batt-ve is, and where and how to check the voltage on pins 5&6, can you provide some more details, perhaps pictures or even a drawing? You could be helping a lot of folks with this one!

Jerry
I tried to copy my diagram but it's protected. if you look at the ETM plug, the one on the wire to the ETM, with the latch opening on the top the pins go 1 (top left) 2, 3 across the top left to right then 4 (bottom left) 5,6 across the bottom left to right.

I'll try to figure out how to post diagram but it might take awhile.

You should do the voltage test with the ETM plugged in so there is a load on the circuit. I've cut leads off 1/4 resistors and stuck them between the wire and the rubber seal on the back of the plug. You have to be very careful the uninsulated wires don't touch anything or each other, maybe lay some tape over them.
 

Last edited by Bobec; 09-05-2010 at 02:23 PM.
  #11  
Old 09-06-2010, 11:48 AM
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Bobec, Let me clarify. With the plug in the ETM, #5 and 6 will be the bottom right looking at it? I can slip in a stiff wire at the rubber seal interface where the wires go through the harness part of the plug. You used wire you cut from a resistor you had to do this?

So now I have my "extended leads" in slots #5 and 6 and careful not to let them touch anything else. Am I measuring voltage between the 2 leads? Or am I measuring voltage from each one to ground? I'm assuming between the 2 leads as one is voltage and the other is ground? Which is which?

Sorry for asking so many questions, but I'm assuming there are probably a lot of interested folks following this, and if we get the info down to where we feel comfortable, we'll be able to trouble shoot this ourselves when ours starts to crap out. Mine is still running strong at 115K miles.

I am also interested in the lubing of the O-ring. How difficult is it to get to it, and hopefully it's an "unscrew or unclip" operation to get there? Did you use a silicon grease? Thanks for you patience and the help.

Jerry
 
  #12  
Old 09-06-2010, 04:52 PM
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I'll try to post the wiring diagram in the next few days. I don't want anyone to misunderstand. On these cars always measure between the two wires, ground is in many instances the same potential as one of the wires but the wire is the ground used for the circuit and the metal part is often used for ground potential shielding.

Never use silicone it can and probably will ruin your H02 sensors. I used 5W-30 pure synthetic on a Q-tip and holding the ETM so gravity can do it's thing worked it in around the shaft on both sides of the shaft.

I know I sound like a broken record but make sure your battery has been replaced within 3 maybe 4years( northern latitudes). Today I walked outside the car was off radiator fan is running, I'm sure 20 min. later the cabin fan is blowing on high to dry the evaporator and ducts. This is a great thing Volvo did for us and our vehicles (mold reduction, evaporator life ) but the battery pays a price.
 

Last edited by Bobec; 09-06-2010 at 05:08 PM.
  #13  
Old 09-17-2010, 04:25 PM
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Bobec, can you tell me where I might find the ETM I have a 2000 v70 xc AWD wagon, and am just learning about all these little things that make such huge differences in how the vehicle runs, I also have a 1998 V70 AWD wagon.....Thanks for all the neat stuff you are putting on this site.
Pete
 
  #14  
Old 09-18-2010, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by colt1911 View Post
Bobec, can you tell me where I might find the ETM I have a 2000 v70 xc AWD wagon, and am just learning about all these little things that make such huge differences in how the vehicle runs, I also have a 1998 V70 AWD wagon.....Thanks for all the neat stuff you are putting on this site.
Pete
This is the ETM on the 00V70
Throttle Body Replaced - No Software!-throttle-body-2000v70awd.jpg

The 98 doesn't have an ETM but here's a diagram of the ECU and components
Throttle Body Replaced - No Software!-controls-98v70awd.jpg

I've been trying to paste the pinout of the ETM plug but have problems so here is a picture of the ETM and the plug. If you are looking at (into) the plug just as it is in the photo, PIN one is on the top left, 1,2,3 across the top 4,5,6 across the bottom
Throttle Body Replaced - No Software!-etm.jpg

Hope this helps
 
  #15  
Old 09-21-2010, 07:50 AM
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Hey, this is similar to my problem.. 99 2.4T, ets replaced recently by previous owner.. Ets light still coming on, with sluggish driving at times... Other times drives amazing! I am getting a p1618 code as well as both o2 sensors...

I am interested in checking the ground, but after tinkering last night, it seems harder to locate than I figured.. Any help for this newby is appreciated! Btw, great thread!
 
  #16  
Old 09-27-2010, 04:47 PM
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Bobec, I read online that the ETM's with a yellow sticker means that it was replaced do to a recall from Volvo. Also would you have any idea where I can sign up with Volvo, as a new owner of 2 of their used cars, so they can contact me, if there are any more recalls on my 2 models????
 
  #17  
Old 09-30-2010, 05:58 PM
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had my ETM replaced in April.
Now ive got the ETS light on and its running lumpy and its throwing up a MAF code and a CTS code and the rad fan runs for 5 mins after the car is stopped.
if i reset the codes the ets light goes out for a second then comes straight back on again.
Had it into main dealer and they are saying the ETM is fine but its a break in the wiring diagram and it will take an indefinate amount of time to fix at 80 + vat an hour
been without my baby for a week now but really need her home soon.
do you think mine sounds like a voltage issue?
 
  #18  
Old 09-30-2010, 06:18 PM
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Is this the correct diagram to test the voltage?


 
  #19  
Old 10-01-2010, 06:24 AM
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Originally Posted by FatLadZ View Post
Is this the correct diagram to test the voltage?


Yes the pin numbering is perfect, and thank you for doing this, I wanted to but don't have time right now.

Also I'd be looking at a voltage problem, how old is you battery. The battery for this car is expensive and it is for a reason. Don't go with a cheap alternative why?

The fan running after the car is turned off is by design. 20mins later the cabin fan will run at full power to dry the evaporator and ducts. This put additional stress on the battery it needs to be a good one not a cheap one.

Good luck
 
  #20  
Old 10-01-2010, 06:28 AM
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Originally Posted by colt1911 View Post
Bobec, I read online that the ETM's with a yellow sticker means that it was replaced do to a recall from Volvo. Also would you have any idea where I can sign up with Volvo, as a new owner of 2 of their used cars, so they can contact me, if there are any more recalls on my 2 models????
The yellow sticker means it had a firmware up date not that it was replaced. As far as recalls go check the internet or right here on the forum

https://volvoforums.com/forum/general-volvo-chat-5/recall-sources-all-models-12721/
 

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