Crankshaft not turning when cranking
#1
Crankshaft not turning when cranking
This is my first post, I apologize now for the rookie mistakes to come.
The car: 240 DL with 315,000 miles (odometer broke at 227,000 10 years ago).
I was driving to work last week and after about 20 miles of freeway driving at 65 mph, I noticed a slight bit of hesitation while maintaining the current speed. It felt like a blockage in the fuel filter. It had no problem starting up at lunch or at the end of the day, but there was same hesitation driving, especially on acceleration.
On the way home, there were a couple loud backfires and then the engine died. It would not start.
Here is what I have done:
1) Made sure there is no blockage in the fuel filter.
2) Made sure gas gets to engine. I jumped the fuel pump by connecting fuse 6 to 4. However, unjumped, there is no gas going to the engine (well going into the fuel injector tube) when engine is cranked.
3) Last year I replaced the battery, coil, all wires, rotor, distributor cap and spark plugs. However, this week I noticed that the 25 amp Fuse that is by itself attached to the inside fender had almost completely melted, though it was still able to conduct electricity. I pulled off the fuse and just taped the two thick red wires together for the time being.
4) Check the relays (both the system under drivers dash, seems fine) and fuel relay under passengers dash (sounds like it shorts when I plug it in or unplug it, but I'm not sure how to test it with a multi-tester).
5) I read on some post that if there is no spark, then this volvo will not send gas to the engine, so I decided to check that the rotor spins. I pulled off the distributor cap, cranked engine, no spin.
6) Then I pulled off the Timing belt cover, cranked engine, and found that neither the crankshaft, nor the camshaft wheels are turning, thought the fanbelt and all other associated belts turn.
7) I did replace the ECU last year with one from a 240 that only had about 120,000 miles on it, but the ICU (I believe) is original (with 315,000 or so miles).
At this point, I have no idea where to go or what to check, my thought is that it is not an internal engine problem, because I have a high sensitivity to those types of sounds due to my personal experience of blowing a few engines in my time.
Also, all of my automotive "expertise" has come by experience of this car and one auto tech class (introductory in nature). If I didn't mention a part here, I most likely will not know what it is, so please act as if I know very little.
Thank you for reading this.
The car: 240 DL with 315,000 miles (odometer broke at 227,000 10 years ago).
I was driving to work last week and after about 20 miles of freeway driving at 65 mph, I noticed a slight bit of hesitation while maintaining the current speed. It felt like a blockage in the fuel filter. It had no problem starting up at lunch or at the end of the day, but there was same hesitation driving, especially on acceleration.
On the way home, there were a couple loud backfires and then the engine died. It would not start.
Here is what I have done:
1) Made sure there is no blockage in the fuel filter.
2) Made sure gas gets to engine. I jumped the fuel pump by connecting fuse 6 to 4. However, unjumped, there is no gas going to the engine (well going into the fuel injector tube) when engine is cranked.
3) Last year I replaced the battery, coil, all wires, rotor, distributor cap and spark plugs. However, this week I noticed that the 25 amp Fuse that is by itself attached to the inside fender had almost completely melted, though it was still able to conduct electricity. I pulled off the fuse and just taped the two thick red wires together for the time being.
4) Check the relays (both the system under drivers dash, seems fine) and fuel relay under passengers dash (sounds like it shorts when I plug it in or unplug it, but I'm not sure how to test it with a multi-tester).
5) I read on some post that if there is no spark, then this volvo will not send gas to the engine, so I decided to check that the rotor spins. I pulled off the distributor cap, cranked engine, no spin.
6) Then I pulled off the Timing belt cover, cranked engine, and found that neither the crankshaft, nor the camshaft wheels are turning, thought the fanbelt and all other associated belts turn.
7) I did replace the ECU last year with one from a 240 that only had about 120,000 miles on it, but the ICU (I believe) is original (with 315,000 or so miles).
At this point, I have no idea where to go or what to check, my thought is that it is not an internal engine problem, because I have a high sensitivity to those types of sounds due to my personal experience of blowing a few engines in my time.
Also, all of my automotive "expertise" has come by experience of this car and one auto tech class (introductory in nature). If I didn't mention a part here, I most likely will not know what it is, so please act as if I know very little.
Thank you for reading this.
#3
Hello,
Two things come to mind for you to check.
1. The crankshaft pulley, may have become "unbonded"
http://www.fcpgroton.com/product-exe...ategory_id/124
2. The crankshaft gear may have failed. The gear drives the timing belt has broken and slipping.
http://www.fcpgroton.com/product-exe...ategory_id/124
The links lead to pictures.
Good Luck
Two things come to mind for you to check.
1. The crankshaft pulley, may have become "unbonded"
http://www.fcpgroton.com/product-exe...ategory_id/124
2. The crankshaft gear may have failed. The gear drives the timing belt has broken and slipping.
http://www.fcpgroton.com/product-exe...ategory_id/124
The links lead to pictures.
Good Luck
#5
if the fan belts are still turning, the crankshaft is turning, and you are looking at the wrong gears under the timing belt cover.. what you are probably seeing is the cam gear and the intermediate shaft gear... you probably sheared the teeth off the timing belt at the crank gear... luckily, while this happened when it was running, there should be no internal damage to the engine... change the timing belt (do yourself a favor and change the seals while you're in there) and you should be back in buisness...
you should get the fuse in the wiring (the one taped together) fixed as soon as you can... if you have a short somewhere in the wire, this could lead to a electrical fire (worse case scenario), leading to one less 240 in the world...
hope this helps,
Darin
you should get the fuse in the wiring (the one taped together) fixed as soon as you can... if you have a short somewhere in the wire, this could lead to a electrical fire (worse case scenario), leading to one less 240 in the world...
hope this helps,
Darin
#6
To all who replied, thank you, here are some answers I DO know:
jagtoes-- My model doesn't have that feature (it's the little black box in the engine compartment that has 6 or so red lights, that depending on the combination of lights diagnoses what is wrong?)
darkdelta -- I don't see the crankshaft pulley (like the one in the picture), they both look like the crankshaft gear (second picture), both of which are stationary when engine turns. If the gear has failed, will that cause the distributor rotor to also not turn? And then, how big of a job is it to replace the broken part?
Phill0046 -- yes.
NCVOLVO940 -- I found one timing belt tooth that had come off, but all the rest that I can see on the belt are still there. The cover has an upper and lower section, I took off the top piece (the lower piece covers basically the bottom gear) and all of the timing belt I can see look fine. I will definitely deal with the fuse soon.
Thanks again, I will be back under the hood in the morning, I'll look closer at the timing belt and the gear, and report back if I find anything new.
jagtoes-- My model doesn't have that feature (it's the little black box in the engine compartment that has 6 or so red lights, that depending on the combination of lights diagnoses what is wrong?)
darkdelta -- I don't see the crankshaft pulley (like the one in the picture), they both look like the crankshaft gear (second picture), both of which are stationary when engine turns. If the gear has failed, will that cause the distributor rotor to also not turn? And then, how big of a job is it to replace the broken part?
Phill0046 -- yes.
NCVOLVO940 -- I found one timing belt tooth that had come off, but all the rest that I can see on the belt are still there. The cover has an upper and lower section, I took off the top piece (the lower piece covers basically the bottom gear) and all of the timing belt I can see look fine. I will definitely deal with the fuse soon.
Thanks again, I will be back under the hood in the morning, I'll look closer at the timing belt and the gear, and report back if I find anything new.
#7
[quote=adamwithwood;252326]To all who replied, thank you, here are some answers I DO know:
jagtoes-- My model doesn't have that feature (it's the little black box in the engine compartment that has 6 or so red lights, that depending on the combination of lights diagnoses what is wrong?)
Interesting and what year is this? This site might help http://www.volvoclub.org.uk/faq/EngineOBDCodes.html
jagtoes-- My model doesn't have that feature (it's the little black box in the engine compartment that has 6 or so red lights, that depending on the combination of lights diagnoses what is wrong?)
Interesting and what year is this? This site might help http://www.volvoclub.org.uk/faq/EngineOBDCodes.html
#8
How are the belts turning if not by the crankshft pulley aka "harmonic balancer"? That harmonic balancer may be separating as it is made of two parts with a rubber in between which breaks and throws off the timing and may even not spin at all at times, giving you the idea that the crankshaft is not turning. I'd think it is a timing belt problem that prevents the engine from starting.
#9
To all who replied, thank you, here are some answers I DO know:
darkdelta -- I don't see the crankshaft pulley (like the one in the picture), they both look like the crankshaft gear (second picture), both of which are stationary when engine turns. If the gear has failed, will that cause the distributor rotor to also not turn? And then, how big of a job is it to replace the broken part?
NCVOLVO940 -- I found one timing belt tooth that had come off, but all the rest that I can see on the belt are still there. The cover has an upper and lower section, I took off the top piece (the lower piece covers basically the bottom gear) and all of the timing belt I can see look fine. I will definitely deal with the fuse soon.
darkdelta -- I don't see the crankshaft pulley (like the one in the picture), they both look like the crankshaft gear (second picture), both of which are stationary when engine turns. If the gear has failed, will that cause the distributor rotor to also not turn? And then, how big of a job is it to replace the broken part?
NCVOLVO940 -- I found one timing belt tooth that had come off, but all the rest that I can see on the belt are still there. The cover has an upper and lower section, I took off the top piece (the lower piece covers basically the bottom gear) and all of the timing belt I can see look fine. I will definitely deal with the fuse soon.
#2- if you've found 1 tooth that's come off the timing belt, gauranteed that there will be more.... get the bottom cover off and try turning the engine, most likely you will find the crank gear slipping on missing teeth...
#10
[quote=jagtoes;252363]
It's a 1987 DL. I've seen the diagnostic box on other models, but my car does not have it.
To all who replied, thank you, here are some answers I DO know:
jagtoes-- My model doesn't have that feature (it's the little black box in the engine compartment that has 6 or so red lights, that depending on the combination of lights diagnoses what is wrong?)
Interesting and what year is this? This site might help http://www.volvoclub.org.uk/faq/EngineOBDCodes.html
jagtoes-- My model doesn't have that feature (it's the little black box in the engine compartment that has 6 or so red lights, that depending on the combination of lights diagnoses what is wrong?)
Interesting and what year is this? This site might help http://www.volvoclub.org.uk/faq/EngineOBDCodes.html
It's a 1987 DL. I've seen the diagnostic box on other models, but my car does not have it.
Last edited by adamwithwood; 01-16-2011 at 06:38 PM.
#11
#12
Ok, just spent some time looking at the engine. I am not as observant as I thought I was three days ago.
I didn't see a much smaller gear below the larger one that controls the turning of the distributor. The small one spins like it should when the engine is cranked.
So now I know I need a new timing belt, thank goodness. So thank you to everyones help, I really appreciate having access to a place where I can get this kind of feedback.
I didn't see a much smaller gear below the larger one that controls the turning of the distributor. The small one spins like it should when the engine is cranked.
So now I know I need a new timing belt, thank goodness. So thank you to everyones help, I really appreciate having access to a place where I can get this kind of feedback.
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