I'm not joking. He originally installed the belt with the cams 180 off. Now, who knows where they are, as he's lost track of how many times he has rotated the cams and crank independent of each other.

And I call BS. They all have timing marks. I've done hundreds of belts, never saw one without marks. The odds of someone miraculously having multiple ones with no marks would be pretty slim.

 

Thanks to BOXPIN and HG Carol and others who have offered CONSTRUCTIVE advice.
First, EST6, We no longer use "bedside manor" instead we use Patient Communications. Maybe I can offer some resources for mechanics communications when it comes to these forums. The photos from each of you have been invaluable. I've attached a few pictures of where I am with this engine. The crank marks require a bit of eye balling as they are an inch or two from the protruding timing mark behind the cog. Both cam marks are marked in white but I'm wondering if they are indeed the correct marks. Both Cams have been marked with white but are these the timing marks?
There is a "W" or "m" depending on how you look at them.Could this be the time marks.

 

You call BS! Whats the matter with you? I need help and all you can do is write such things. You don't belong on this forum regardless of you experience. I've met many individuals on forums and I've never met any one like you. YOU have no place here.

 

Yes, this is all a big conspiracy to keep you from knowing the real truth about what happened to my volvo. ARE YOU SERIOUS?

 

Me calling BS was not regarding you or your situation. It was the guy who claims all of his Volvos have no timing marks. Relax.

I don't need your resources. I have no obligation to be nice, let alone help at all. When I talk to customers who want to come back and have me explain what's wrong with their car, I'm much more courteous. But those people are paying me. You are not.

I didn't claim it was a conspiracy. I know what happened to your Volvo. You decided it was a good idea to rotate the cams with the belt off and therefore installed the belt with the cams 180 degrees off. My issue was that I had to ask a simple question 5 times before you answered it, and then complained because your feelings got hurt.

 

The problem with this thread clearly identified by ES6T was your inability to write a couple of sentences clearly describing what you'd done.

Bedside "manor." Please tell me you're not really an MD with your learning disability and your inability to spell.

 

ES6T is about the only poster here who really knows what he's talking about.

This forum attracts a large number of drive-by lunatics for whatever reason. Welcome to that club.

 

Watch your tongue migbro, this aint my first time around the block.

You CAN rotate cams without a timing belt if the crank is in just the right position.
You CAN time your cams 180 deg off because as you turn the crank over one time...guess what, your back in time. (2 to 1)

Sure the odds are against him but lets all at least try to get him straightened out so he can be sure.

 

Any time I want to know something about 850s, I'll be sure to ask.

 

This has become bizarre. I have never seen a forum like this. My first mistake was joining this website forum. My second mistake was responding to this diatribe. I originally thought we were looking at a Volvo 240 with a B230 engine MY MISTAKE. I am very familiar with the 240 engine and have worked on my own three 240s (and several friend's 240s) for the past 30 years. My only experience with an 850 is that I changed the timing belt a while back for a friend, and I lined up the marks before removing the old belt and I also put a small paint mark on the gear tooth so that there would be no mistake when looking at the gear from a bad angle, especially the crank gear so I wouldn't make the mistake of being one tooth off. Everything went fine.

I had just finished helping a friend fix his 240 after his belt broke on the highway. He has no understanding about how a cam works or the valves. He didn't know anything about the 2:1 relationship of the cam and the crank. We had to figure out how to get gears in the correct place. When I read this thread, I thought I saw the same situation. He showed me this link and what I saw was Oblidi in a panic, because he's not exactly sure how he screwed it up and some of you guys being outright rude to him because he couldn't answer a few questions he honestly didn't know.

Just because I'm not a mechanic by trade with mechanic's experience, doesn't make me a "drive by lunatic" who does not understand how valve timing works. Oblidi, don't trust what I say anymore. Trust boxpin, ES6T, and rspi, they are the real experts and have been very helpful and provided useful information for you. Some of you others like migbro sound like you want his engine to blow up and are outright rude.

I should never have tried to be helpful, I only added more to the confusion. I only disagree with ES6T on the one point when he said that if the cam is turned 360 degrees it will be 180 degrees out. I am probably misinterpreting what he is saying. This is a cam not a clock spring. When the mark is lined up, it is lined up and it doesn't matter how many times it is rotated to get there...... BUT I am NOT suggesting doing that. This is said just for illustration. Oh, by the way, I never suggested moving things independently and if I said that somewhere, I mis-worded something. We all know that if a piston is up and a valve comes down, it hits and breaks things.

Boxpin and rspi have pointed out that there is a position of the crank where you can turn the cam gears without damage. Is it really where the crank mark lines up? I would have thought it would be a few degrees before that, but I trust you knowledge and experience with that engine. Since I don't have that experience, I would also want to look down the spark plug holes to see exactly where each piston was before I would go turning cams.

By the way, I don't think I have said anything in my posts that contradict what boxpin and ES6T have already said, and they are the real experts here. I think with the great videos provided by raspi we need nothing more. Good luck, Merry Christmas Oblidi, and I hope you get it running. I know that I know how all this this works and have no need to prove anything so I'm outta this playpen, and I'll think twice before trying to be helpful, after all, I'm just a drive-by lunitic who is now hopefully many miles away.

 

I would have to agree with you HG Carol but I feel you have a lot to offer including your understanding of those who don't have a lot of experience working on specific problems. Aside from of the rude posters, There are many others who truly want to help like yourself. Being an expert means nothing if you don't know how to communicate those who are not experts. One poster wrote that he only had to be nice to those who paid him. Pathetic little Scrooge. In sum, don't go. in one or two sentences, you have helped me understand more than many of the other "experts" offered, as has boxpin.

So onto my Volvo.... I'm wondering is the white marks on the cams are actually the timing marks. They've been there since I bought the car. Maybe they are just for orientation? There is a small "w" or "M" (depending on its position) stamped on each
cam. Other than that, I cant see any other markings. The crank pully has a scored line on its inner and outer edge. No marks on the cog so I had to eyeball it with the raised mark just behind the cog.

 

HG: I never meant to insult you in all this. Your post was dead on for a red block motor. You clearly understand how they work, just missed the fact this is an 850.

My comment that turning the cams 360 degrees puts them 180 out was only when done the way he did, but turning the cams 360 degrees with the belt off and then turning the crank 360 degrees. By doing so, the cams were 180 degrees off.

I didn't have a problem with him asking for help. And if he can't answer questions because he doesn't know, that's fine. But I had to ask at least four times before he said he didn't know, and each time he made some snarky remark about how I'm not helping him. If he would have just said he didn't know how many times he rotated the cams and crank with the belt off, this would have gone a lot differently.

 

That's exactly how I read it. Whiny drive-by fails to answer simple questions, complains that strangers on the internet aren't helping him.

 

OK, Oblidi, one last time for some more of my mis-information. The pictures brought me back (for now) I have to be honest after looking at the pictures and say I'm not sure if those marks are really the marks. That notch on the crank pulley might be the mark. On my 240, that notch is the mark. I don't remember, but I thought the crank gear also had a stamped mark on it that lined up with the notch in the pulley. That might not be true for your car. I also looked at the videos in this thread and I couldn't tell from that either where exactly the mark is. All of the pictures show a painted line. I want to see an etched line or notch on the gear. You should wait to see what ES6T or boxpin have to say. If the notch on the pulley really is the mark, then you need to paint marks on the gear so you can absolutely get it lined up when you put the belt on. It is more difficult to see if it lines up when the belt is on. You need to line it up with the mark on the block EXACTLY and not be off by even a single tooth. Close isn't good enough, it must be exact.

Those white marks on the cam gears might also be the cam marks, but I think there should be a notch or groove in the face of the gear like the video and the pictures on this thread. I doubt that W is it. Wait to see what ES6T and boxbin have to say. Maybe the painted dot is covering the groove. It should look like the pictures. Can you scrape the paint a little and see if there's a notch under it? When I fixed my friend's 850 years ago, I had to wipe the gear really clean with a rag to find the thin line notch etched into the gear. That last picture of the crank doesn't show anything other than the notch on the pulley, on my 240, I would have removed all of the belts. I need to see that the crank gear is clearly lined up.

ES6T, I appreciate your comments. I have no beef with you, you have been very helpful. I might have a slightly better ability to explain things, but your information was very helpful. I was not offended by you, and I felt that Oblidi overlooked the importance of your information and gave more credit to me than I deserved and overlooked your valuable information. Oblidi, ES6T has been helpful so be easier on him. Let's all join together and get Oblidi's car running again.

By the way, for the record, my favorite Volvo is the 240 with standard shift. Oh yeah, 122S and P1800 are also nice.

Cheers and merry Christmas

 

The white marks are not necessarily the marks. At one time when someone was replacing the belt, they put those marks there. Now, if they put the paint on the factory marks, then they are the correct marks. Your best bet is to take the paint off with some carb cleaner and look for the actual marks, as posted by boxpin.

The crank mark is on the gear and also on the flange behind the pulley. It makes it a lot easier to see if you remove the pulley.

The M on the cam gears is irrelevant.

 

Notches, notches, notches. I am using a cam timing wheel to advance and retard my cam timing but you get the jist.

 

Thanks all. This is exactly the help I wanted. I'm sure you all are more experienced than I am when it comes to this particular problem. As I said,somethings I don't get right away, and other mechanical problems are a snap for me to get straight. Timing issues happen top be one of the problems I just can't get my head around. Fortunately, the Brits never went beyond one cam an adjustable distributor. BMW twin cams came with timing chains.
So my friends, should Sven (yes I name my cars) have seen his last mile I will donate him to click and clack and hopefully he will rise again in some high school auto shop or south america, or perhaps a viking funeral. I've enjoyed driving Sven for many miles and hope things work out for a few more. If not, I may consider another Volvo,but chances are I'll go back to another BMW. Yes, I was a doctor last week, next week I'll be a corporate pilot (jet rated) and then who knows what. Be kind to one another and always treat each other with the respect you would want whether your a paying client or just need some friendly advice. Cheers and Happy Christmas! First Officer Oblidi.