Should the engine run WITH both cam sensors UNPLUGGED?

Old Jan 29, 2025 | 04:26 AM
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Default Should the engine run WITH both cam sensors UNPLUGGED?

My son bought an 04 Volvo as his first car with a blown head gasket. He was able to repair the car. No more breached head. Engine sounds great and has plenty of power, but has been getting timing codes. No idea if they were there before since it had unknown issues. We timed it so that with the crank on the mark, both cam slots (rear of engine... i.e. drivers side in US) are parallel to the seam of the cam cover/head and checked this after several engine rotations. So we're pretty sure it is perfectly in time. But we're still getting cams over advanced codes (P0011, P0014, and one other). This led me to next question if maybe there is an electronics issue.

I unplugged both cam sensors and there was no change in sound and the engine kept running. Is this normal?
 

Last edited by 777funk; Jan 29, 2025 at 04:36 AM.
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Old Jan 29, 2025 | 10:19 AM
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sounds like your VVT is not actuating and it may be staying in the advanced position this could be due to the gear / solenoid or the gear was not properly rotated (preloaded) when installing the timing belt. There's plenty of posts on P0011 and P0014 codes as well as some Youtube vids that may give you some further ideas on how to triage between a position sensor vs a hub issue. Have you done any tests/measurements on the sensors yet?
 
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Old Jan 29, 2025 | 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by 777funk
I unplugged both cam sensors and there was no change in sound and the engine kept running. Is this normal?
Yes if the engine is running you can disconnect the cams sensors. I don't think it will start with them disconnected however.

Generally if you remove a head you will need the cam line up tools and correct instructions to be able to get the cams set properly.

If you are getting cam codes, the timing is probably not correct. What directions did you follow?
 
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Old Jan 30, 2025 | 03:30 AM
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Originally Posted by hoonk
Yes if the engine is running you can disconnect the cams sensors. I don't think it will start with them disconnected however.

Generally if you remove a head you will need the cam line up tools and correct instructions to be able to get the cams set properly.

If you are getting cam codes, the timing is probably not correct. What directions did you follow?
Hi there. We did the following :
-The crank was put on its mark
-Cams had slots lined up parallel to head seam
-Cam hubs were rotated fully Clockwise to end of play
-Belt on
-Cam hub 8mm bolts (fine adjustment) loosened on exhaust cam since it was now slightly mi's-aligned (half a tooth) to head seam. 40psi air applied applied to the VVT hub solenoid to lock it. Engine rotated opposite the direction of slight cam error. 8mm bolts tightened. Timing rechecked and perfectly aligned to head seam.
-engine turned 2 revolutions by hand to confirm that cam slots are parallel to seam with crank on mark. (wedged a utility knife blade in each slot to give a fine pointer to see slots compared to seam. Within a degree of parallel still after turning engine.
-start engine runs smooth

We had initially used a cam locking tool (off brand) and it was not perfectly parallel to the seam with the slots. I would say we are now within a degree on each cam. We removed and resealed vvt hubs. We confirmed leaks and 40psi air easily actuates them CCW and CW.
 

Last edited by 777funk; Jan 30, 2025 at 03:38 AM.
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Old Jan 30, 2025 | 06:39 AM
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Originally Posted by mt6127
sounds like your VVT is not actuating and it may be staying in the advanced position this could be due to the gear / solenoid or the gear was not properly rotated (preloaded) when installing the timing belt. There's plenty of posts on P0011 and P0014 codes as well as some Youtube vids that may give you some further ideas on how to triage between a position sensor vs a hub issue. Have you done any tests/measurements on the sensors yet?
I wish. I don't have VIDA. I didn't want to buy the cracked software/Win 10. No problem with those who do.... there's a fine line between, I own the car; thus I should be able to work on it and respecting Volvo's software licensing.

We took it to the dealer (West County Volvo in St Louis) specifically asking to have the timing looked at in VIDA. Paid $185 diagnostic fee and they did nothing to help unfortunately. Never connected to a computer. Really bummed out about this. My 17 year old son has probably 100 hours in this car and most of his savings up to this point. It runs great, just can't register do to CEL.

So that said, we're trying our best without a PC.
  • Cams were timed w/hubs fully clockwise. Cam slots match up with cam cover seam with crank in time. Rotated 2x and it stays in time
  • O scope shows signal at both Cam sensor signal wires (and frequency increases with speed)
  • VVT hubs actuate firmly in both directions with air pressure applied to the correct port (solenoids removed).
  • No trash in solenoid gasket screens
  • Solenoids click w/12v applied. Valves close and open properly
Suspicious findings:
  • tapped into the solenoid wiring to measure live voltage (PWM) applied and am able to read average voltage (sort of) this way. Intake rests at around 3VDC (I know... it's not really DC) and I can see voltage fluctuate as throttle increases or releases. HOWEVER, exhaust solenoid takes a while to return to the resting voltage (3VDC) and sometimes never does. If I give it gas and release back to idle, sometimes it'll come back to a stable 3VDC. So something is strange here. The code is that the exhaust is over advanced... maybe a correlation
  • Some insulation chafed at solenoids. I wonder if maybe the ECU module could be damaged if the solenoid wires shorted?
  • Oil pressure light flickers at idle when hot... BUT the idle is low (only 500 rpms) for some reason. If the idle is held at 650, there are no problems. Oil pressure was verified with a gauge and is in spec from 650 and up. The pan and pickup / o-rings etc have been resealed/replaced, but I think the low idle is as much the cause of the no oil pressure at idle as anything.
 
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Old Jan 30, 2025 | 08:33 AM
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You could purchase a VIDA subscription and (hopefully) compatible DICE unit to be able to check the parameters shown below. Aftermarket scan tools (expensive ones!) will be able to do the same thing.

On your oil pressure - I've replaced many partially clogged early style metal oil pick up tubes - they did not look clogged - but a new tulip shaped plastic pickup always fixed the flashing oil pressure warning light.

My techs would occasionally incorrectly set cam timing (during head or cam seal installation) - and would have to go back and do it again - even after having done many correctly. So start with the cam locking tools and do it all again following the correct procedure. (before guessing at what parts to replace next)




 
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