1984 245- Can you identify this fuel problem?

Old Jun 4, 2011 | 03:04 PM
  #41  
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there's no such thing as a 1995 740, maybe a 940 (which is the the last year of the same basic car with incremental improvements). A 1995 940 is a much more modern and nicer car than a 84 240 (which was a 1970s design), its quieter, smoother riding, etc. a Turbo can add to maintenance costs and complexity.

if it won't crank over, or cranks slowly, your battery is dying and needs recharging. I'm in the habit of putting my charger on the battery each time I've had a did-not-start wrenching session, so its fully charged for the next session.

on that 940... take the seats out (not that hard, 4 bolts for each front seat, and any electrical connectors for power seats, seat heaters... [!!if it has in seat side impact airbags, there are some special precautions!!], and nuke the carpets with a upholstery shampooer (or several cans of aerosol carpet shampoo and a shopvac with a upholstery end, and repeated hot water and shopvac rinse).... then get the euro rubber floor mats from IPDusa.com, which fit like they came with the car. with the seats out of the car, if they are fabric and not electric, and really disgusting, I think I'd take a garden hose to them, then shopvac them as dry as you can, and put them in the sun a few days to really dry, then get some pre-fit custom seat covers from someone like http://www.seatcovers.net/scottsdale_seat_covers.html and reinstall the seats... oh, before you reinstall the seats, clean and regrease the rails and tracks, that should go without saying.
 

Last edited by pierce; Jun 4, 2011 at 03:25 PM.
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Old Jun 4, 2011 | 11:20 PM
  #42  
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update:

Well, it is late and dark now, but in the morning I will jump the battery and see what the car does with the new FPR installed. It would be quite ironic if it starts, but if it does not, that's fine too. I am elated to say I have a nice replacement lined up.

After all this work - oil pan removal for gasket change, brakes, trans pan gasket and filter, valve cover gasket, plugs- I am glad it is just about to come to an end. Yes, I am disappointed that I will lose money- paid $700 for the car last month and put about $200 into it- and only get $450 for it. And I put countless hours into it. But I really can't complain for two reasons.

For one, I learned so much that I never knew before about common techniques to troubleshoot a car that won't start. This experience is very valuable to me.

Also, I am about to get a vehicle that looks like a good deal. It's a 1995 940 (thanks for the correction, pierce) volvo turbo wagon. It has 204,000 on it, but the owner has had it since 30,000 and taken great care of it, save for the interior which his son is responsible for.

I'm only paying $600 for the car and the body is flawless- save for one very tiny rust spot on the fender. It needs a new caliper, and recently has had a brake job done. The low price seemed suspicious to me at first, but once I spoke with the owner, I was reassured- the guy owns two newer model very nice volvo vehicles, and while the car could definitely fetch more than $600, to him it's a drop in the bucket, if you will.

To me, it's hard to believe I found a steal at such the right time. I pick it up tomorrow afternoon, and will post pics once I get her. Glad to say, a gentleman called tonight and will be here Monday morning to pick up the 84 240. I am only getting $450 for it, but that's okay. That is part of the cycle of life- some come, some go.

Pierce- thanks for all the advice and for your many suggestions. I will take your advice on cleaning the interior, and maybe get some seat covers.

As for the floor mats, do you think I could put the ones from the 240 into the 940? Would that work? They are in great shape and I don't think the future owner is worried a bit about 25 year old floor mats. ....
 
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Old Jun 6, 2011 | 04:43 PM
  #43  
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so I just got my 1995 940 home.
At the owner's home, the hood would not open and it needed jumped as the key was turned over and drained the battery.

We couldn't get it to open, so I managed to crawl underneath and connect the cables to the terminals and get it jumped.

Now I am home with a hood that still will not open. Inside, the lever you pull to open hood is damaged. It is disconnected, so I can only pull on the cable. This only releases the passenger side lock thing that keeps the hood down.
It's my understanding that there are two locks that the lever is supposed to release: one on drivers side and one on passenger.

No matter how hard I pull on the lever from inside, only the passenger side unlocks. What should I do?

Break the other spring lock on driver's side? Will it be easy to replace?
 
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Old Jun 6, 2011 | 05:15 PM
  #44  
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the one cable goes to both latches. I'd probably try and grab the end of the cable under the dash with a pair of vicegrips, and have someone pull and wiggle on them while you try and work the hood up by pressing down and up on it to see if you can get both latches open.

phew, I just looked at my 92 740, which is pretty much the same car... only way I can see to access the latch mechanisms is with the headlights and their mounting brackets removed. I I even removed my grill, but there's no access to the cable from there, nor is it accessible from the engine compartment, except for the bend in the front left corner.

i can't even conceive how you got to the battery from under the car, the lower engine protector would keep anyone out of there, or did you jump it at the starter motor (+) terminal?

If you get it open, odds are, it just needs a good greasing. If/when you get it open, I think I'd remove both headlights and the mounting brackets behind the headlights so you can access the latches from underneath, grease the heck out of the latch and the cone piece that goes down into it, then pull the cable a few times and verify that the bit inside the whole moves as it should on both sides, THEN try closing the hood and seeing if it opens again.... if it doesn't, you should be able to spring it from the headlight openings you so thoughtfully provided

here's the parts diagram...


click for fullscreen
 
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Old Jun 6, 2011 | 11:06 PM
  #45  
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Actually, there was sufficient room from underneath to get the jumper cable to clamp to the positive terminal. The ground was further back, and after several pinched fingers and exhausting efforts, it dawned on me that I could put the ground cable on any piece of metal- duh! I did have to remove the AC Compressor, but it was held in only by one bolt.

Tomorrow I will try to pull the cable while I have someone push up and down on the hood. I just can't imagine what it may come to if this doesn't work.
 
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Old Jun 23, 2011 | 10:00 PM
  #46  
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What does ECU stand for? And also what does EFI stand for? My 1985 245 seams to have the same problem. I bought a 1985 Volvo DL 245 station wagon and the only way I can get it to run is to spray starting fluid in the throttle body. I have changed both fuel pumps and even put a fuel pressure gauge on the fuel rail. It showed 40 lbs. and then I squeezed the return line and it showed 100 lbs. pressure. Next I bought a fuel pressure regulator and installed it. It then only showed 30 lbs. pressure. I even tried starting it with the return line squeezed off and it still would not start. I think it has do do with the fuel injectors not firing, but I don't know how to fix that. Any help would be appreciated.
 
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Old Jun 23, 2011 | 10:07 PM
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Default injectors not firing

Sounds like the same problem I'm having. I bought a 1985 Volvo DL 245 station wagon and the only way I can get it to run is to spray starting fluid in the throttle body. I have changed both fuel pumps and even put a fuel pressure gauge on the fuel rail. It showed 40 lbs. and then I squeezed the return line and it showed 100 lbs. pressure. Next I bought a fuel pressure regulator and installed it. It then only showed 30 lbs. pressure. I even tried starting it with the return line squeezed off and it still would not start. I think it has do do with the fuel injectors not firing, but I don't know how to fix that. Any help would be appreciated.
 
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Old Jun 23, 2011 | 11:16 PM
  #48  
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EFI is Electronic Fuel Injection, as opposed to the earlier CIS (Constant Injection) also (misnamed) mechanical injection.

ECU is Electronic Control Unit. a 240/740/940 has two, one for fuel injection and the other for the ignition (spark). The FI can be KE-Jetronic, LH 2.2 Jetronic, LH 2.4 Jetronic, or Regina, and the ignition can be a couple Bosch systems or Regina.
 
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Old Jun 24, 2011 | 07:00 AM
  #49  
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Default injectors not working

So what should I do next?
 
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Old Jun 24, 2011 | 01:44 PM
  #50  
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DWeston; you really should start your own thread so we don't confuse problems.

I am assuming that if you use startting fluid, it doesn't continue to run once its started, it just turns over as long as you're spraying stuff in there?

at this point, I think your next step is to determine if the fuel injectors are getting electrical pulses when its being turned over, or not. this can be done with a volt meter or a 'noid light'. one side of the injectors should be at +12V (via the main FI relay) if the car is turned on, the other side is grounded through the ECU to fire the injectors, so if you use a volt meter, and connect one side of the meter to engine ground, and probe the wires with the other meter lead, you should see steady +12V on one wire, and pulsing +12V/0/+12 on the other. all 4 injectors fire together.

if you don't see that steady +12V on the one side, I'd be looking at the main relay, which is behind the dashboard somewhere. They are prone to failures involving crummy soldering joints inside the relay, so can often be repaired via a skilled application of solder, or just replaced. on many 240s/740s, the main and fuel pump relay functions are combined to a double-wide combo relay.

if you DO see the steady +12V on the one side but don't see the pulses on the other side, then I'd be looking at the ECU and/or its wiring (best thing to do is to swap a compatible ECU from another car). Another possible source of problems is a sensor on the back side of the engine that picks up that its turning, its wiring insulation can fail.
 
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Old Jun 27, 2011 | 07:50 PM
  #51  
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Default 1985 Volvo injectors not firing

Today I put a volt meter tester on each wire going to one of the injectors (one at a time) with the key on. No voltage or any thing on either one. So now how do I locate the part that needs to be changed and what does it look like?
 
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Old Jun 27, 2011 | 10:46 PM
  #52  
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the next thing to check is the main fuel injection relay. I'm not sure exactly where it is on an 84/85 240, but likely somewhere behind the glovebox.
 
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Old Jun 28, 2011 | 08:29 AM
  #53  
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I do have the glove box out. Can you tell me what it might look like? Also, is there a way to check it or should I just buy another one?
 
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Old Jun 28, 2011 | 09:58 AM
  #54  
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On my 86 the system and pump relays are in the same white case, on the inside firewall above the passenger's feet, behind the carpet.
 
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Old Jun 28, 2011 | 02:34 PM
  #55  
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its tricky, on earlier systems they were 2 separate relays for main/EFI and for the fuel pumps, but they consolidated into a large double-wide double relay later on. I do not have any accurate info on different model year 240s (the bentley book I do have is vague, my 87 has the doublewide as bubba describes). the parts diagram for an 85 240 lists a 'fuel pump relay' without either showing where it is, or if its also the 'main' relay.
 
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Old Jun 30, 2011 | 05:42 PM
  #56  
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Default 1985 Volvo injectors not firing

I located the relay. I checked with Rock Auto and they have them for $30.00 plus I don't know how much for shipping. When looking for it on Rock Auto I found it under fuel injector relay. Then as I proceeded to find the price the name changed to fuel pump relay. Do you know if there is a way to test my old one or should I go ahead and buy it. There are not any salvage yards around here with any Volvos.

Thanks, Don
 
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Old Jul 3, 2011 | 08:14 PM
  #57  
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the combo relay used in the newer cars has both the fuel injection relay and the fuel pump relay in the same housing.

the easiest way to test them is to swap them with a known good one in another car.
they also can be tested with a volt meter and a wire or two so you can connect power to the coils.
 
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Old Jul 4, 2011 | 09:46 AM
  #58  
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Thanks, Since I don't have access to one that I know is good. I will either try and find someone that can test this one for me or I will buy a new one.
 
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Old Jul 8, 2011 | 08:31 PM
  #59  
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Default fuel injectors not working

I ordered a new fuel injector relay. I received it today and put it in. Checking with a volt meter there is still no voltage to either wire going to the injectors with the key on. What should I try next?
 
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Old Jul 8, 2011 | 10:34 PM
  #60  
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check to see if there's voltage at the coil of the relay when the key is on. make sure there's + power on the big red wire to the relay (thats always on power).

you're in luck, there's a copy of the wiring diagrams for a 1985 240 here...
http://www.k-jet.org/files/greenbook...985_PRELIM.pdf
your EFI is on pages 13 and 14.

your relay is "E", power comes from the big red wire into pin 30 of the top half and when the key is turned on, also to pin 85 via the red-black (R-SB) wire. The LH2.2 fuel controller ("A") should be grounding the blue-green wire to pin 86/2 which should cause relay pin 87/2 to deliver power over the yellow-red wire to the injectors and also to the fuel pump "D" and the tank pump "P"
 
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